[1] Reference One:
EDWIN'S EMAIL:
To: Vishvarupa
Subject: New Email Submission
From: Edwin Reu rings
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 04:13:56 -0800
Hello, Searching on my name 'Edwin Reu rings' in google, i came on your site page http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/sathya-sai-baba-and-petition-saipetitionnet.html.
Yes, i signed a petition against Sai Baba because i had bad experiences with him, but asked later to remove my entry from all websites. The reason is that i run a communication business and use internet marketing. People are likely to search on my name in search engines and i do not want any association wth Sai Baba any longer.
So will you please remove my name from your page ? I hope from reply from you.
Kind regards,
Edwin Reu rings
Te netherlands
MY RESPONSE:
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 08:06:03 -0800
From: Joe
Subject: Re: New Email Submission
To: Edwin Reu rings
My friend, I cannot remove your name from the site, as that would alter the original petition, however, I can alter the html code so that you name will not return a result on search engines. Your name will still be visible, but your name will not return results on search engines. I hope that is okay? If someone types in your name, in a search engine, you name will not show up. I will make the alteration shortly.
However, you name is still listed on two anti-SSB sites:
http://www.saiguru.net/english/news/Signatures.htm
home.hetnet.nl/~ex_baba/ engels/shortnews/undersigned.html
These two links come up when you name is searched. Thank you for your email, Edwin.
Sincerely,
Joe
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu rings
To: Joe
Subject: RE: New Email Submission
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:29:03 +0100
Joe, thanks for doing this, making the site unsearchable is fine. Thanks for the other links.
Kind regards,
Edwin
MY RESPONSE:
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 08:24:37 -0800
From: Joe
Subject: Clarification
To: Edwin Reu rings
Edwin~ I forgot to tell you that the changes will take about 2-3 weeks before the search engines update my site.
However, this will not solve the problem because I just realized that there are two more articles, on ExBaba.com's site about you, under the Witnesses section. I am providing commentaries about these articles, and sooner or later, your article is going to be fully addressed.
I notice you said, "The sexual advances he has made to me during one interview are nothing compared to those described on the website mentioned below.
During an interview Sai Baba touched me in the groin once under the pledge that he would give me a woman. Although at the time I did not regard this as an indecent act, the way he did it I thought peculiar."
Can you please clarify your comments? You said that SSB made "sexual advances" on you. But you say that this "sexual advance" was simply one touch, on your groin, under the pledge of giving you a woman. You did not consider the act "indecent", at that time, but later changed your mind. How did SSB "touch" your groin? How long did he touch you? And if you did not think it was "indecent", why are you calling it a "sexual advance"?
I can understand if you do not wish to answer these questions. However, I will bring these questions up on my article about you. So you have a golden opportunity to answer these questions for me. Otherwise, these key questions will be asked, and any silence, from you, will be noted.
The article is located at:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/edwin.html
home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses.html
With additional Articles at:
www.saiguru.net/english/sai_org/15AKD.htm
home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/andries.html
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Joe
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu rings
To: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:53:46 +0100
Joe,
You are looking for the truth and i can respect that.
SSB touched my groin while i assisted him in his private interview room with rising from a chair. His hand reached out to touch my groin in a fast gesture. I felt his hand touching my groin / penis for a brief moment. At that moment, I was so convinced that this man could not be interested in me sexually (by the way, i am not gay), that i was left thinking after the interview that there was a big message / sign for me in that gesture from him. That i had to learn something from it. This shows my good faith in him as a guru / master. However, when i later heard all the other stories about abuse, the simple truth about the intention behind this action from him came down on me. It could be nothing more than a ordinary sexual advance. Can i prove it? No, but isn't it strange that someone touches your private parts without asking? Especially a guru is someone you wouldn't expect it from!
Kind regards,
Edwin
MY RESPONSE:
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:42:43 -0800
From: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
To: Edwin Reu rings
Edwin, thank you warmly for your email. I will every effort to make sure your name is not indexed on search engines.
However, I am confused about your email. In your testimony, on ExBaba.com, you said that SSB touched your groin once, specifically in reference to "giving you a woman". However, your email seems to be implying that was not the case, as the reference (in your email) was you helping SSB out of a chair. Am I missing something?
If SSB touched your groin once, "for a brief moment", and specifically making reference to "giving you a woman", that would indicate, to me, that SSB was validating your sexual desires for a woman, and that he would help you in that regard. Since SSB did not fondle you, ask you to do anything, or have you touch him in any way, I simply can't see it as a "sexual advance", especially in light of what you call a "brief moment" of him touching you...and that, only once...and that, in the context of SSB saying he would "give you a woman" (having nothing to do with sex with SSB at all). I also have doubts about this being a "sexual encounter" because, initially, you did not see it as a "sexual encounter". It was only later that you saw it as such, after hearing the testimonies of other people.
Do you understand the point I am trying to make? Why didn't you say, what you just told me in this email, on your testimony on ExBaba.com? Are you going to have ExBaba.com remove your testimony from their site?
Thank you for any clarifications.
Sincerely,
Joe
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu rings
To: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:14:48 +0100
Joe, i will reply to your e-mail but i do not have time to do that before next tuesday.
Kind regards,
Edwin
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu rings
To: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:01:52 +0100
Hi Joe, i will reply below:
Both happened at the same time. While i was helping him out of a chair, he reached his hand out to touch my penis. And he did.
At that point in time, i thought the same. I know now that the devotees point of view is completely different than the objective outstander's point of view. As a devotee, Baba could do anything to me without me putting questionmarks around it. Anything can be taken as a sign, a lesson from the master. But to what extent is that surrender justified? With the open, unbiased mind i have (again) now, touching a penis is way out of line and completely unnecessary. He could have only said the words he said without touching my penis. That would deliver the same message (if any) and above all, i would never have put these experiences on the internet. And if he is allknowing, he could have known this and prevented this. And how many people you speak to for the first time touch your penis without asking? Not many in my life!
When i heard all the other stuff Baba did to people like, sexuall harressment that goes much further than what Baba did to me, it kind of clicked inside of me. The truth is very simple. This man touched my penis because he liked it. What anybody else thinks from it, that's their business and i do not care about it. I think Baba is a very powerful man with great possibilities but with some human weaknesses in the sexual area. It is sad to see that (in my opinion) he misuses his power to vulnerable devotees.
(Regarding other sites listing his name being listed through search engines on Anti-SSB Sites) I don't know, maybe i ask them to make it invisible to search engines. I think it is still necessary to contribute to it.
BTW: i don't know if i want to invest more time in explaining to you, i hope this is enough.
Edwin
MY RESPONSE:
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:42:43 -0800
From: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
To: Edwin Reu rings
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:39:36
Your explanation is fine. After I make my page, I will send you the link and if you feel that my observations are not fair, you are free to clarify them.
Take care and I did visit your website. It is beautiful.
Sincerely,
Joe
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu Rings
To: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:53:46 +0100
ok thanks Joe.
Edwin
MY RESPONSE:
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:12:04 -0800
From: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
To: Edwin Reu Rings
Edwin, I finished my article about you.
There are two pages: The Original Page and a References Page. On the References page, I use your real name, as it is correctly spelled. But do not worry, that page is not an indexed page. It will not even be put on the internet. However, your name will come up under the name "Edwin Reu rings", just as it does on other sites.
If you find any factual discrepancies, please let me know:
http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.com/Witnesses/edwin_reu_rings.html
Sincerely,
Joe
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu Rings
To: Joe
Subject: RE: Clarification
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:11:15 +0100
Joe,
Looking on your page i saw that robots can still find the page:
it should be 'noindex' instead.
Furthermore, this page can be copied and used elsewhere so i ask you to change my last name into 'ruerings'.
Otherwise my request to you to reduce my name turning up on the internet will cause an opposite effect. I dont want that.
Spaces in my name will create no difference since google concatenates them.
I will reply below:
(Regarding my comment) In this statement, Edwin Reu Rings specifically stated that SSB touched him once (with his clothes on), assuring him that he would "give him a woman". At the time this incident happened, Edwin Reu Rings did not feel there was anything "indecent" with the way SSB touched him. It was only after reading about other alleged, sexual abuse testimonies, on myfreeoffice.com/saibabaexposed, did Edwin Reu Rings change his mind about what SSB did to him!
There were more things contributing to this. I started to get my own life back after a very confusing time with SSB. I began to regain my senses and was able to look at things more clearly in my life. So time and personal growth were also contributing to my conclusion.
(Regarding my comment) SSB's quick touch, to his mid-section, under the pledge of giving him a woman, all of a sudden turned into a "sexual advance" and "sexual abuse"!
Where did i talk about sexual abuse? The editors of the english version of my testimony added these words, i never spoke of it. You cannot call this a sexual abuse. I see it as a sexual advance though. The reason that i did not saw this act as a sexual advance at that point in time but only later, comes from the fact that i didn't know about that dark side of him back then. Also, the problem is that from a devotee's point of view, the guru can do anything without the devotee putting questionmarks around it. If a regard the guru as a person, as i did later, than touching my penis without asking me is way out of line. I don't believe that being a guru gives somebody special priviliges to touch another man's penis. Even if he wants to deliver a message with it.
(Regarding my comment) Consequently, I personally disagree with Edwin's account of being sexual abused by SSB. If it was truly sexual abuse, or a sexual advance, there should have been an unmistakable impression that something was seriously wrong. However, according to Edwin's original testimony, on ExBaba.com and SaiGuru.net, he did not feel there was anything "indecent" about the way SSB touched him.
Then, i was in a phase of my life in which i was very open to all kinds of spiritual experiences and people. I tried to be non judgemental and did not dare to question anything. I take that into account.
(Regarding my comment) Of course, in Edwin's second account (in his email to me), he felt there was something wrong, as the experience made him think there was a "big lesson or sign" in the way SSB touched him. This is contradictory because Edwin tells us why SSB touched him in the midsection! According to Edwin, SSB touched him "in the groin once under the pledge that he would give me a woman". Such being the case, I leave it upto the reader to form his/her own opinions in this matter.
BTW, About this pledge: i haven't received a wife yet. And please don't take this as the reason i'm writing you all this.
A REQUEST:
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:35:01 -0800
From: Joe
Subject: Re: Clarification: Sathya Sai
To: Edwin Reu rings
Dear Edwin,
I was wondering if you could kindly tell me how old you were when you had your encounter with SSB touching your midsection? There are numerous stories that abusees were children and boys. Were you a child or boy when you had your encounter?
Thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
Joe
EDWIN'S RESPONSE:
From: Edwin Reu Rings
To: Joe
Clarification: Sathya Sai
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:06:02 +0100 +0100
I was 27 at the time.
Edwin
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