Said Khorramshahgol (Afshin) Queries Gèrald Morèno

Date: 11-26-04

From: Said Khorramshahgol (Afshin)

I would like to respond to some accusations that a Mr. Gèrald Morèno has made against me, Said Khorramshahgol (Afshin).

I was recently sent a copy of an "expose" Mr. Morèno has written about me on his website at http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.com/Witnesses/exbaba-witnesses.html.

Even the briefest scan revealed that all his accusations are the same as those that have been levelled against me by Sai devotees before. Mr. Morèno did not contact me to hear my side of the story or to give me a chance to clear things up, he instead chose to just smear me without giving me any chance. But that has been typical of devotees who want to defend Sai Baba.

My Response: First of all, this is not an "expose". I am simply giving my own personal opinions regarding Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol. I formed my own personal opinions based on the comments Said Khorramshahgol made in several discussion groups and his testimonies on ExBaba.com. My attempt was not to "smear" him, but rather to provide the general public with more information about Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol, than is provided on ExBaba.com. I think that is only fair.

Secondly, I am not a SSB devotee. Why didn't Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol email me to enquire whether I am a devotee or not? He did not bother to contact me and (obviously) has not read my site, or he would have read about my comments about not being a SSB devotee. It is unequivocally stated, on my site, that I believe SSB has engaged in sexual acts with young men. However, since criminal allegations are being made against SSB, a thorough and two-sided assessment of the pro and con's are required. Clearly, ExBaba.com has not provided the general public with both sides of the story. I am providing the "other side" that ExBaba.com has failed to discuss.

And lastly, it is undeniable that S. Khorramshahgol has a clear-cut agenda to defame SSB at any cost. S. Khorramshahgol has made numerous posts, in many forums and online groups, openly ridiculing, defaming and accusing SSB of criminal acts. It has been my attempt to bring this to the attention of the general public, who are thus far, being fed highly selective and one-sided views on Said Khorramshahgol's alleged sexual abuse, on ExBaba.com. The general public should have all the necessary information on Said Khorramshahgol in order to get a clearer insight into his character and demeanor.

I am surprised to see that a person in some ways coherent as Mr. Morèno tries to convince everyone that just because I have spammed and just because I have used foul language before, then it means that I am mentally ill and therefore my sexual molestation account cannot be counted on. Is Mr. Morèno a psychiatrist or psychologist that he can so confidently pronounce on a person's mental state, and with so little evidence?

My Response: My opinion regarding Said Khorramshahgol's mental state is my own personal opinion. I never claimed it was a diagnosis. Is Said Khorramshahgol a psychiatrist or a psychologist who can diagnose sexual disorders? He gives his own opinions regarding SSB's sexual disorders. He is expressing his own personal opinion, about SSB, which he is perfectly entitled to have. I am expressing my own personal opinion, about Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol, which I am perfectly entitled to have. It's that simple. My opinion is based on the writing and comments from Said. Just as Said is critical with others, I am doing the same with him. Said Khorramshahgol seems to imply this isn't fair!

Now I would like to point out some of the problems I see in his "expose".

My Response: Hello! This is not an "expose"!

First and foremost, Mr. Morèno assumes that everyone will believe anything that he says, which might explain why he does not give any real proof of anything. Here is a list of the "proof" that he presents:

A link to the account of my abuse at the hands of Sai Baba where I talk about the guilt that I felt after following Sai Baba's teachings and how the guilt affected me.

2. A link to an MSN group called SaiBabaMaestroeAvatar, where I supposedly spammed over 1,200 times.

3. A link to a yahoo group where I have posted a lot of messages.

4. A link to some newsgroup posts that are supposedly from me.

The above can hardly be considered as proof. Anyways, here is my response to the above:

My Response: I never assumed anything. I simply provided links, with comments, for others to research so they can form at their own independent conclusions. Perhaps Said Khorramshahgol can tell us where I said that I am "assuming" everyone will believe anything I say? The only one making an assumption is S. Khorramshahgol. I do not expect anyone to believe me. Similarly, S. Khorramshahgol should be aware that not everyone should be expected to believe him either! The links are proof for the points I made about Said's spamming and comments, unless, of course, Said is denying he made the comments and "la_quake" isn't his online name either.

1. As I said in my account of sexual abuse at the hands of Sai Baba, I felt very guilty for failing to follow ALL of the teachings of Sai Baba and as a result the guilt made me depressed over time. Mr. Morèno and other devotees make the point that this is an "evidence" that "proves" that I have mental problems. It is a completely shameful and appalling argument and it is not becoming of a seeker of Truth and Love to use such negative smear campaign.

My Response: At http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/said.html, Said Khorramshahgol said that one of the reasons he first went to see SSB was because, " It wasn't until 1990 or 1991 that I started to believe in Baba. At that time in my life I was very confused about life and the purpose of my existence. Many unanswered questions were in my mind and I was very confused and unhappy." and " Now that I look back, in all my confusion and mental torment, I was so desperate to believe in some philosophy that I jumped to believe in Baba and his philosophy." and " I was telling him about the problems in my country of Iran, how the people are suffering, the problems of my family and my own problems."

These things show that Said had "many problems" prior to coming to SSB. This is just a statement of fact, backed up by Afshin Khorramshahgol's own words. Said (Afshin) chose the words "very confused", "unhappy", "mental torment" and being "desperate". Those are his own words, describing himself, prior to seeing SSB. I did not say that Said Khorramshahgol was mentally unstable because of these things. I said that, in my opinion, Said Khorramshahgol had "acute mental issues" due to his online activity and behavior. I did not attribute his "acute mental issues" to his many problems. I simply pointed out his "many problems" certainly seem to be verified by his online activity. I believe the general public needs to know this. After all, he is the one making criminal allegations against SSB. If this ever went to a court of law, it is certain that Said Afshin Khorramshahgol's online behavior would play a huge role in discrediting his integrity. Anyone who reads Khorramshahgol's posts will see the only person involved in a "smear campaign" is him. This much is absolutely certain.

Why have Mr. Morèno and so many Sai devotees refused to hold Sai Baba and his organization to the civil, moral and ethical accountability that are expected of the rest of us? Have they never stopped to consider the terrible battle sexual abuse survivors have to get their accounts listened to?

My Response: My site is about ExBaba.com. Consequently, my comments are limited to ExBaba.com. I have heard many accusations against the Sai Organization, yet these accusations seem to be nothing more than vitriolic attacks. Why does Said Khorramshahgol refuse to hold ExBaba.com, Robert Priddy, Randi Godager and the SaiPetition.net webmasters to the, "civil, moral and ethical accountability that are expected of the rest of us"? It is undeniable that ExBaba.com does not live up to the civil, moral and ethical accountability they demand of the Sai Organization. This is perhaps the reason why the Sai Organization has refused to talk to any of the anti-SSB activists. I believe my web pages about the online petition proves this beyond any doubt.

Together with other devotees, Mr. Morèno grabs at straws over how I felt guilty when I could not practice the very difficult teachings of Sai Baba. Perhaps he and they are immune to guilt, but I would like to let them know that many people in the world do feel guilt, some more than others. Does that make them crazy? In case it is thought that such shameful psychologizing is confined to rank and file Sai devotees, let it be recalled that it has been used by top Sai leaders such as Dr. Hislop when he refers to the testimony of a boy devotee from Northern California as "teen anxiety and projection." (Memo, January 18, 1981, in possession of a former Sai leader Dr. Timothy Conway, of Santa Barbara, USA.) Similarly, the Rahm family relate how Dr. Michael Goldstein said that their son might be "delusional." Again, rather than provide, for example, an independent, third party professional assessment, there is the attempt to attribute mental symptoms.

My Response: Pehaps Said Khorramshahgol can provide me with the proof that I am grabbing at straws, "together with other devotees"? I am acting, and writing, alone on my web pages. No one is helping me. I personally do not fault Said Khorramshahgol about feeling guilty about not being able to practice SSB's teachings. I just found it very strange that he reacted with such profound mental anguish, to the point of feeling "crazy" and having "paranoia". Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol said, at http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/said.html, "You might be asking me why I am emphasizing guilt. As a result of all of this I became very depressed and also I had a lot of paranoia. I came to the point that from the pain, my chest felt like had opened and I could feel every cell in my chest blowing from the pain as if they were boiling water. At the same time I was very paranoid about things. After years of telling myself that I was stupid and not good enough, I had somehow come to the belief that I was crazy. I would interpret every sentence ten different ways" and "As a result of all of this I ecame very depressed and also I had a lot of paranoia" and "As a result of all this depression and paranoia, I slowly got away from practicing the teachings of Sai Baba. Everytime I would try to do what he said, I would feel more depressed and paranoid". I simply pointed this out to further validate the point that I made: Said Khorramshahgol had acute mental issues during the time he was a SSB devotee. Something he openly admits.

It is very revealing to see Mr. Morèno and a number of Sai devotees act like they do not know how guilt affects people, especially if the guilt is acute.

2. Mr. Morèno provides no proof of where he gets 1,200 from. I ask Mr. Morèno to tell us where and how he came up with the number 1,200.

My Response: On this page, Said Afshin Khorramshahgol does not deny making the 1,200 posts. The number of 1,200 comes from the following (number of posts followed by the forum):

90 soc.culture.iranian
85 talk.religion.newage
19 alt.religion.christian
16 alt.consciousness.mysticism
15 alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
15 soc.culture.indian
15 soc.culture.malaysia
13 alt.alien.visitors
13 alt.christnet.bible
11 alt.religion.islam
11 alt.religion.mormon
11 talk.religion.course-miracle
10 fr.soc.religion
10 soc.culture.pakistan
10 talk.religion.misc
9 alt.alien.research
9 alt.bible
9 alt.bible.prophecy
9 alt.fan.art-bell
9 alt.meditation
9 alt.paranet.ufo
9 alt.religion.jehovahs-witn
9 alt.religion.scientology
9 alt.ufo.reports
9 alt.yoga
9 comp.databases.olap
9 de.alt.ufo
9 it.discussioni.ufo
9 no.prat.ufo
9 soc.culture.jewish
9 uk.environment
9 uk.games.roleplay
9 uk.games.video.playstation
9 uk.legal
9 uk.media.dvd
9 uk.misc
9 uk.people.gothic
9 uk.sport.football
9 uk.telecom
8 alt.consciousness
8 alt.impeach.clinton
7 alt.paranormal.reincarnation
6 alt.abuse.recovery
6 alt.atheism
6 alt.computer.consultants.ads
6 alt.disney.disneyworld
6 alt.healing.reiki
6 alt.magic
6 alt.magic.secrets
6 alt.magick
6 alt.meditation.shabda
6 alt.meditation.transcendental
6 alt.metaphysics.a-a-bailey
6 alt.out-of-body
6 alt.recovery
6 alt.religion.bahai
6 alt.religion.christian.baptist
6 alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox
6 alt.religion.unification
6 alt.religion.vaisnava
6 alt.religion.wicca
6 alt.startrek.creative
6 alt.support.loneliness
6 alt.tv.x-files
6 alt.yogananda
6 alt.zen
6 aus.politics
6 de.alt.astrologie
6 it.arti.fotografia
6 it.economia.borsa
6 rec.martial-arts
6 sci.astro.amateur
6 soc.genealogy.britain
6 soc.retirement
6 talk.origins
6 uk.people.teens
6 uk.rec.ufo
5 comp.databases.oracle.marketplace
5 israel.lists.il-talk
5 talk.religion.buddhism
4 a.bsu.religion
4 comp.databases.oracle.server
4 humanities.language.sanskrit
3 alt.antichristnet
3 alt.babylon5.uk
3 alt.christnet
3 alt.christnet.prayer
3 alt.christnet.public
3 alt.education
3 alt.education.alternative
3 alt.folklore.urban
3 alt.philosophy
3 alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
3 alt.religion.w-w-church-god
3 alt.revisionism
3 alt.sports.baseball.stl-cardinals
3 alt.tarot
3 aus.religion.christian
3 fa.deos
3 soc.culture.argentina
3 soc.culture.brazil
3 soc.culture.singapore
3 soc.culture.tamil
3 soc.culture.thai
3 soc.penpals
3 uk.finance
3 uk.local.yorkshire
2 alt.slack
2 news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
2 soc.culture.indian.telugu
1 alt.culture.egyptian
1 alt.islam.sufism
1 alt.religion.christian.boston-church
1 alt.religion.islam.arabic
1 alt.religion.islam.shia
1 alt.security.terrorism
1 alt.sports.baseball
1 sci.military.naval
1 soc.culture.afghanistan
1 soc.culture.egyptian
1 uk.religion.islam
Total: 909 posts

When that spam was revealed, Afshin came back under yet another deja account: sai_detective@my-deja.com

32 soc.culture.indian
16 alt.religion.eckankar
13 talk.religion.newage
9 uk.religion.hindu
9 uk.religion.interfaith
8 aus.politics
8 uk.religion.buddhist
8 uk.religion.misc
8 uk.religion.other-faiths
7 alt.religion.vaisnava
6 alt.folklore.ghost-stories
5 soc.culture.singapore
4 alt.fan.art-bell
4 alt.yoga
3 alt.zen
3 soc.culture.indonesia
3 soc.culture.malaysia
3 talk.religion.buddhism
2 alt.consciousness
2 alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan
2 soc.culture.australian
2 soc.culture.tamil
2 uk.misc
1 alt.fan.sailor-moon
1 alt.lifestyle.furry
1 alt.politics.media
1 alt.religion.islam
1 alt.religion.scientology
1 rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang
1 rec.travel.asia
1 soc.culture.british
1 soc.culture.irani
Total: 168 posts

When that account was cancelled due spamming, Afshin reappeared as la_quake@my-deja.com, and repeated the same articles from his earlier two accounts, also added new ones along the same line.

37 alt.healing.reiki
16 alt.smokers
14 soc.culture.iranian
12 soc.culture.indian
8 alt.paranormal.reincarnation
8 alt.support.ex-cult.siddha-yoga
7 alt.invest.penny-stocks
6 uk.religion.hindu
5 alt.yoga
5 rec.music.gdead
5 soc.culture.argentina
4 alt.atheism
3 fr.soc.religion
2 a.bsu.religion
2 alt.aromatherapy
2 alt.religion.scientology
2 soc.culture.pakistan.religion
1 alt.baldspot
1 alt.org.food-not-bombs
1 alt.paranet.metaphysics
1 alt.peeves
1 alt.religion.islam
1 alt.religion.shamanism
1 talk.religion.course-miracle
1 talk.religion.misc
1 talk.religion.newage
Total: 147 posts

Grand Total of: 1,224 posts.

3. By suggesting that I posted a lot of messages on that Group, Mr. Morèno tries to depict me as not just a regular poster to it but as spamming that group. Anyone can go to the Group and see my posts and decide if I post spam or if my posts are, rather, discussions/arguments/etc with other club members. Perhaps Mr. Morèno would like to provide a link from an internet ethics site where they condemn a group member from discussing issues (i.e., posting) a lot of times. If you are interested in seeing my posts, go to the link below, my username is la_quake@yahoo.com at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sathyasaibaba2.

My Response: On the sathyasaibaba2 yahoo group, Said has made approximately 1,180 posts from July 1st, 2004 to November 24th, 2004! I am glad that Said Khorramshahgol is telling people to look up his posts. I suggest they do. Just beware that the language is graphic. Regarding spam posting, just look at the following 2 posts: One and Two. These are 24 consecutive posts (from 41262-41287) that say exactly the same thing! And this is not spamming, according to Said! I am expressing my own personal opinion about spam. Some newsgroups ban people for posting the same message 6 times to 10 times! 20 is my own idea of excess. It's that simple.

Also, Mr. Morèno fails to say that there are some devotees (like Bon Giovanni, whose hyper-intellectualized, heart-absent labyrinths tend to resemble his own) who have posted thousands of messages in various groups and newsgroups. Does Mr. Morèno think that they are spamming too? Or does he believe that they are just defending Sai Baba or promoting Sai Baba?

My Response: My comments are not about Bon Giovanni. My comments are about Said Khorramshahgol because his name is on the list of alleged sexual abuse victims, at ExBaba.com. My site is about ExBaba.com, not Bon Giovanni. I do not associate myself with Bon Giovanni, nor do I agree with many of his arguments. If S. Khorramshahgol wants to justify his thousands of posts, by pointing fingers at others, that is his prerogative. It is indeed amusing that S. Khorramshahgol accuses me of making "heart-absent labyrinth" comments. I guess his thousands of posts, on different online groups, are somehow the opposite of what he accuses me of?

4. Mr. Morèno asks people to click for an example of my posts to newsgroups and by clicking that link people are taken to posts made by a khorramshahgol@mydeja.com. If Mr. Morèno had done his research, he would have realized that even though "khorramshahgol@mydeja.com" bears my last name, I have always and for years denied that it was I who created and used that account. And I can provide proof. Read every post of this khorramshahgol@mydeja.com and you will see that an individual was stalking me and by means of his or her posts was trying to ridicule me. As a side note, truth and reason never stopped the devotees to continue claiming that khorramshahgol@mydeja.com is me, even when they saw that the individual is taunting me and trying to bother me, etc.

My Response: I will accept Said Khorramshahgol's account that khorramshahgol@mydeja.com was an impersonator. I have changed the link to la_quake's posts instead. Unfortunately, this does not improve the situation in the least!

Sadly, Mr. Morèno and a whole procession of Sai devotee activists assail without proof those who testify to being sexually molested by Sai Baba. For example, follow the link below to a list of questions that I have been asking a devotee since August 27, 2004 (I am drafting this response on November 12, 2004) without any luck: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sathyasaibaba2/message/41962

My Response: On this page, it is indeed difficult to find out what questions Said Khorramshahgol is querying Conscientious Objector about. Khorramshahgol queries why the four assailants were killed in 1993. Despite raising this question, Said Khorramshahgol does not provide any answers! Why doesn't Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol tell us why the four assailants were killed in 1993? The other questions Said raises are directed to Conscientious Objector, not me. Said Khorramshahgol also says, "Can anyone trust Gay Baba?" As if any answer is going to change his mind! See if you can make any sense out of this thread. Just a debate between Said Khorramshahgol and Conscientious Objector. He did not ask me these questions, so I don't have to respond. Nor do I care to get involved in this pathetic debate. I have answered Said Khorramshahgol's question about the 1993 murders. He should have known about this if he read my web pages. If you want to find Said's posts, just look for the posts that have "HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE" in them.

Said Afshin Khorramshahgol says, in a tribute to eloquence, "No schizo, we don't need our heads examined. If 4 people with knives were shot in the US by armed police, the public will burn down the police station, are you kidding me? You are stupid or what? Dumbass." And on this page, Said says, "The bitch doesn't see ANYTHING wrong with 4 people with knives being shot by the police. She sees nothing wrong about the changing story of the police. She sees nothing wrong with Gay Baba not being interviewed by the police since he was the ONLY WITNESS. And she sees nothing wrong with Gay Baba givnig 4 different birthdates for Jesus. So, what can you expect from idiots that still think Gay Baba is God knowing that he contradicts himself more often than the number of times that he falls on the ground and the number of times that his health fails him, combined. Dumbasses! hehehehehehehe."

What Said fails to see is that people have been shot to death, by police, for simply being suspected of carrying weapons. Amadou Diallo is a perfect example. Police can shoot to kill if threatened with any weapon, especially if others have been killed at the scene (as was the case in the 1993 murders).

Why hasn't Said Khorramshahgol filed a court case in India against SSB? Why doesn't Said Khorramshahgol send me the proof to all those who have testified to being allegedly sexually abused by SSB? Why doesn't Said demand "proof" from ExBaba.com regarding their numerous assertions made by anonymous people? It is apparent that Said Khorramshahgol could care less for any "proof" that does not argue in favor of his views.

Again, one must note that Mr. Morèno does not present anything new in his "expose". All that he said has been said by other devotees. Would Mr. Morèno tell us whether he was being fed this information by someone else?

My Response: Again, this is not an "expose". Said Khorramshahgol would like everyone to think that nothing "new" was found on my page about him. However, the fact remains that since the general public is not being provided with links regarding Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol's online comments and behavior (which directly point to his character), my web pages provide this new information in conjunction with his testimony, found on ExBaba.com. This is called "new material"!

I would now like to answer Mr. Morèno's other accusations (for which he did not provide any links/proof/etc.).

This is a first hand account given by Said Afshin Khorramshahgol, from Iran, who claims to have been sexually abused by SSB.

This proves that Mr. Morèno did not do a good job in researching or that he got the information from other devotees. My name is not Said Afshin Khorramshahgol but Said Khorramshahgol. This is a typical mistake that some devotees with whom I have had interactions in various groups/newsgroups make. I was given two first names at birth, Said and Afshin. I have said this before. Hopefully, Gèrald Joè Morèno and the others will one day get it right.

My Response: If Said Khorramshahgol does not want to be called Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol, then Said should inform ExBaba.com to stop calling him this name as well. As a matter of fact, on Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol's own page, at http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/said.html, he signs his name to his letter as "Afshin". At http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/testimonies.htm Snowcrest.net refers to him as "Afshin Khorramshahgol". On http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/afshin.htm, David Bailey's Page, he uses the name "Afshin Khorramshahgol" and once again signs his name as "Afshin". On this page http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/saidjun3.html, Said signs his name, again, as "Afshin". On http://home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma/SaiSex.htm, at Robert Priddy's page, Robert Priddy refers to him as "Afshin Khorramshahgol". Furthermore, on http://www.sekty.net/uk/?n_id=67?, at Sekty.net, Said gives his account under the name "Afshin Khorramshahgol". Consequently, if Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol does not want people to call him "Afshin", he should inform the anti-SSB sites that address him that way. He should also stop signing his own testimonies using the name of "Afshin"! Hopefully, one day, everyone will get it right…as soon as Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol gets it right!

Said Afshin Khorramshahgol's online activity and behavior shows he has acute mental issues. Afshin said in his letter to the Bailey's that "I was busy talking to him about my problems, the problems of my country Iran, and my family's problems, and I was asking him for his blessing for all of them".

Mr. Morèno claims that my online activity proves that I have extremely severe "mental issues". Trying to prove his point, he provides a quote of mine from my accusation letter where I was talking to Sai Baba. How Mr. Morèno linked my online activity to my accusation letter is beyond me. Further, how does the sentence "I was busy talking to him about my problems" imply that I have mental problems? And also, does Mr. Morèno know of anyone who does not have problems?

My Response: I did not say that Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol has "extremely severe mental issues". I said I think he has "acute mental issues". As I discussed before, I said that the fact that Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol professed having mental issues prior to seeing SSB, the fact that Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol continually talked to SSB about his "problems" and confessed to having serious mental issues ("paranoia" and being "crazy") during his devotee time with SSB and his obsessive anti-SSB postings, numbering in the thousands, after leaving SSB, all point at a person who has acute mental issues. I am standing my ground on this one.

Does he know anyone who, given the chance to be face-to-face with God, would not talk about their problems in life? Is Mr. Morèno himself exempt from mental or any other types of problems?

My Response: Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol, in his own letters, openly says that his "problems" went beyond just ordinary life problems. I simply highlighted what Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol said, to explain my opinions about him. Am I exempt from mental problems and any other type of problems? Regarding mental problems, so far, yes. In regards to other problems, no.

Does Mr. Morèno have any kind of credentials to be able to say who has mental problems and who does not? It doesn't sound like he is a psychologist, psychiatrist, or therapist. If he were either a sexual abuse professional or simply a person of sensitivity and compassion he would realize that people all round the world are sexually abused irrespective of the greater or lesser severity of their mental problems.

My Response: Does Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol have the credentials to diagnose who has mental problems and who does not? Because Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol gives his own opinions regarding SSB's alleged sexual disorders. Also, Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol tries to make a mental diagnosis on Conscientious Objector. Apparently, it is okay for Said (Afshin) to call Conscientious Objector "totally paranoid and delusional", yet Said (Afshin) does not like it when others say something similar about him! Where are Said's credentials? It doesn't sound as if Said Khorramshahgol is a psychologist, psychiatrist or a therapist. I never claimed to be any one of these! Said is having a moment of "compassion", however, by viewing his posts in the different online groups, one certainly can't see it! Actually, I give the full benefit of the doubt to sexual abuse victims. However, when an alleged sexual abuse victim associates him/herself with a SSB hate group, they are opening themselves up to the same critical questions that are espoused by that SSB hate group. Unfortunately, Said cannot have it both ways.

Afshin has many problems. Something he openly admits.

I never made such an admission, but how can I prove it to you, the reader. It is impossible for me to prove the negative. It was Mr. Morèno's ethical and moral responsibility to provide a proof to you. I ask Mr. Morèno to provide proof that I did admit to having many problems.

My Response: I already discussed this. The truth is that Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol did say he has many problems. As a matter of fact, 3 posts above, Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol says he talked to SSB about his "life problems". In his letters, on ExBaba.com, Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol talks about his mental problems while being a devotee (feeling paranoid and crazy and talking about Iran's, his family's and his own problems) and he continues to talk (as one who still has problems) on online groups!

I would also ask him, does he think that problems are solved when a person they adored and worshipped sexually abuses and betrays their childlike trust?

My Response: Anyone who has been sexually abused has been violated and victimized. Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol is perfectly entitled to voicing his anger. The point being that others should be allowed to see that anger. I am providing the links to show this. A consistent theme arises when looking at Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol's life before, during and after his devotion to SSB. I think everyone needs to see this in order to get a better idea into Said's character and integrity. I think this is fair, especially when Said Khorramshahgol has already made these comments public!

His online activity shows he has many more problems than one would initially think. Besides the many letters he wrote to Bon Giovanni and others, Afshin has spammed SaiBabaMaestroeAvatar, an MSN Sai Group, no less than 1,200 times. He spammed 920 times under one name and was banned by Deja.com and then Afshin resumed spamming (admittedly) under multiple fake names. Click Here for Examples.

Besides the fact that Mr. Morèno needs to prove that I did spam that group 1,200 times (I asked for such proof already in response number 2), he needs to clear up what he means by fake names? Don't people create names like 'loveu' or 'badboy2004' or 'demolitionman'? I thought that this was normal and accepted practice on the internet. Again, I ask Mr. Morèno to provide a link from an internet ethics site where they condemn having such alias names.

My Response: I provided the proof earlier about the 1,200 posts. Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol has already addressed this question and is addressing it again. I never said there was anything wrong with fake names. I am simply pointing out that people can use, and abuse, fake names in forums, discussion boards and chat rooms. As a matter of fact, Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol claims that someone using a fake name (which happened to be his name) made posts that were intended to deceive people into believing it came from him! If there isn't anything wrong with fake names, Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol should not be complaining about the person who used the name "Said" with the email of khorramshahgol@mydeja.com! Where did I say that fake names were to be condemned? I didn't say that. The fact of the matter is that by using fake names, a single person can pass him/herself off as many people. I've already demonstrated this on my pages about the bogus SaiPetition.net site.

An even more important issue is that Mr. Morèno implies that spamming is a mental illness. So I ask Mr. Morèno to provide proof from any credible source to prove his assertion that spamming defines mental illness.

My Response: I am expressing my own personal opinion about spamming. Just as Said Khorramshahgol expresses his own personal opinions about Conscientious Objectors mental condition, without being qualified to do so, I, like Said Khorramshahgol, am simply stating a personal opinion based on his thousands of posts.

And I also ask Mr. Morèno to provide proof where I admitted "spamming" under "multiple fake names". I think these accusations are so ruthless that at the minimum I deserve to have proof.

My Response: On this page, here is the proof that Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol's demands. He did not deny spamming. As a matter of fact, he admits doing it and says nobody will care if he does it!

He swears using the F*** word and calls a person "bastard".

Mr. Morèno, do you live in Pleasantville? It sure sounds more and more that Mr. Morèno is fanatically trying to hold on to straws in his accusations. The fact is that some survivors of sexual molestation swear and some don't. But Mr. Morèno is impervious to such commonsense realizations, and instead appears bent on doing a hatchet job of those who have tried, against unending attack from devotees, to get a proper, impartial hearing for their accounts of being sexually abused by Sai Baba.

My Response: I am simply pointing out that Said Khorramshahgol swears. Actually, there are more bad words I did not list. I personally, do not use such words. So, I simply pointed out that Said Khorramshahgol has a potty mouth. If Said Khorramshahgol has problems with people doing "hatchet jobs", he has many bones to pick with ExBaba.com! And just as there are devotees who attack ex-devotees, there are also ex-devotees who attack devotees or people they think are devotees. This goes both ways.

Mr. Morèno might be surprised that the Sai informants that surely keep him primed with information are also capable of such language as I am sure you are too. Take a look at Bon Giovanni's response at the link below, where he uses the word "cunt", if you don't mind me saying. Does Mr. Morèno turn his critical attention on his Sai brothers-and-sisters-in-arms? Link

My Response: Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol says that I have "Sai Informants". Why doesn't Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol provide proof for this allegation? I demand to see some proof about these "Sai Informants". Said Khorramshahgol should be held to the same accountability he demands of me and he should provide proof for his erroneous allegations against me. Fair is fair. If my article was on Bon Giovanni, one can be certain I would have pointed out his foul language. Nevertheless, my article was on Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol, and my comments were limited to him only. This is just common sense. And I would like to see all the sites made by SSB devotees that viciously attack ex-devotees to the point of lying. Just like Glen Meloy's famous lie that SSB's "inappropriate sexual behavior confirmed by US officialdom", when in fact, the US Dept. of State clearly said that the reports were "unconfirmed". Also, I have not seen Said explain why Jed Geyerhahn's three testimonies completely contradict each other! Nor do you see ExBaba.com divulging that, according to the Rahm Family, the Secret Swami Documentary was so poorly edited, it made Alaya into a liar!

Supposedly, he has made over 3,000 posts in over 100 news groups (something he does not deny)! I'm sorry, but anyone who spams any site over 20 times has mental issues. I have never heard of anyone spamming any site from 1,000 - 3,000 times!

"Supposedly"? Does he mean to say that he is accusing me of making "over 3,000 posts" (let Mr. Morèno make up his mind - is it spam or post?) and continue to use this supposition/accusation to claim that I have mental problems? Ludicrously, he starts out by saying "supposedly" and later on that I don't deny having made 3,000 posts. Isn't that illogical? Is Mr. Morèno being dishonest?

My Response: Spam is composed of multiple posts saying the same thing, or one post posted many times to many different places or people. Unfortunately, Said Khorramshahgol does not know how to differentiate between posts and spam. Spam ARE posts. It's the content and behavior that turns ordinary posts into spam. The spam issue comes from saibabamaestro where he was accused of spamming 1,200 times. I said that Said Khorramshahgol "supposedly" made 3,000 posts in over a 100 newsgroups because I have not been able to confirm all those 3,000 posts. However, Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol does not deny that he made 3,000 posts. As a matter of fact, he confirms it. That is why I gave the number 1,000-3,000. Still, in S. Khorramshahgol's letter, he does not deny making that many posts! Despite arguing against how many posts he actually made, Khorramshahgol does not deny making them. Is Said Khorramshahgol being dishonest? The new numbers are 1,200 spam posts at saibabamaestro, 1,180 posts at sathyasaibaba2 and 3,000 posts to 100 news forums.

Let Mr. Morèno say how he came up with the number 20? What makes it OK to spam 20 times or less? It really sounds like his 'arguments' represent his attempt to clutch on to straws. It all sounds so very childish. And this is not as childish as the screaming, potty-mouthed debates Said has on the online groups!

My Response: Again, I am expressing my own personal opinion about spam. Some newsgroups ban people for posting the same message 6 times to 10 times! 20 is my own idea of excess. It's that simple.

Again, I ask Mr. Morèno to provide proof where I admit that I have made over 3,000 posts in over 100 newsgroups.

My Response: Once again, here is the link. One of the posts reads, "la_quake@my-deja.com teased SAME SPAM HUNDREDS NEWS GROUP 3000 TIME!!! And oh, do you think that because I have spammed before makes Sai Baba holy? You are so sloooowwww! Hehehehehe NO ONE CARES THE SAI BABA!!! YOU SPAM STOPPING!! Yes, I spammed, and will continue to do so. Copy this message and post it in all of your messages, OK? NO one will care".

And if Said (Afshin) Khorramshahgol did not spam 3,000 times, why doesn't he say he didn't do it? No where has he admitted not spamming 3,000 times, yet argues I have no proof!

A person, who had an interview with SSB, gave their experience of seeing incredible materializations and Afshin completely bashed that person saying they lied about what they saw and experienced with SSB, however, Afshin wants others to believe what he saw andexperienced with SSB!

I don't even know which incident he is referring to, how can I argue about it? This supports my point; besides the fact that citing a source is a must for any argument, it is also ethical to provide proof for your accusations.

My Response: Since I accept that Said's account that khorramshahgol@mydeja.com was an impersonator (What's wrong with fake names? Remind me again?), I will remove this post from my site.

On this page, on ExBaba.com, Afshin said, "You might be asking me why I am emphasizing guilt. As a result of all of this I became very depressed and also I had a lot of paranoia. I came to the point that from the pain, my chest felt like had opened and I could feel every cell in my chest blowing from the pain as if they were boiling water. At the same time I was very paranoid about things. After years of telling myself that I was stupid and not good enough, I had somehow come to the belief that I was crazy. I would interpret every sentence ten different ways". All of this shows that Afshin had mental issues prior, during and after his meeting with SSB.

How very compassionate and sensitive Mr. Morèno is! Using using someone's low point in life to launch an unfair attack on them.

My Response: I am simply pointing out that Said says he suffered from paranoia, depression and guilt. The description he gives is an unusual reaction, in my opinion. Also, it is important to point out that Said Khorramshahgol says he suffered from these things NOT because he was abused, but because he could not follow SSB's teachings! He admits that he "for years" told himself that he was stupid and not good enough. If he criticizes, he has to learn how to take criticism as well.

Anyhow, I answered this accusation in the beginning of this message (response number 1).

Consequently, I have valid reservations about the integrity of his accounts.

We shall see if my integrity will stand when he, if he, provides the proofs that I have asked for.

My Response: I have.

On the sathyasaibaba2 yahoo online forum, Afshin has made literally thousands of posts in addition to the 3,000 posts mentioned earlier. On this MSN Group Forum and on the sathyasaibaba2 yahoo forum (which has allowed white supremacist images, of the vilest kind, to be posted in their "photos" section since February of 2004) Afshin has said …"

I answered this point above (response number 3), but I would like to ask Mr. Morèno if he has attempted to contact the creator/owner of that group to see why he has not deleted the white supremacist images? He may be dead and unable to delete the images. I am surprised that he has not made a "point" about the apparently sex-related posts on the group! Did he know that those posts have not been deleted either? Even though Mr. Morèno may conclude that the owner of that group is a sex-crazed white supremacist, I think that the owner of the group probably never visits the group anymore and so the group is not being managed. Here, for Mr. Morèno's benefit, is one that was posted very recently: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sathyasaibaba2/message/41992

My Response: I wonder if Said Khorramshahgol has tried to contact the creator/owner of that group instead of assuming he is dead! (?) I did not make any mention to the owner of the group. I simply stated there were vile, racist images in the images folder, which is a statement of fact. What are white supremacists doing in a SSB yahoo forum anyway? This could certainly imply that white supremacists are defaming SSB under various pseudonyms. I said nothing about the owner of the group. Nothing about him being a racist or sex crazed. This again shows how S. Khorramshahgol will jump to erroneous, far-fetched conclusions and try to involve me when I never said anything about it. Will Said Khorramshahgol provide me with the proof that I said something about the owner of the group being either a racist or sex crazed? Or that I even said one word about him? Fair is fair.

Mr. Morèno provides 8 paragraphs in his "expose" in a last, sluggish attempt to make me look like a mad-man, and he does so without any proof that the paragraphs are my writings. I supposedly have made some of the statements (listed below), but since there is no link to prove that I did in fact say these, how can I discuss them? But from memory I can tell that the first three are statements made by the khorramshahgol@mydeja.com person and not me. Did Mr. Morèno fail to check before accusing me! Probably I made the forth point but what does that prove? Does it prove that I made 3,000 spams? Is it an admission that I made 3,000 spams? Or was it made in an angry exchange where out of frustration I admitted to doing something I have not done? I guess we will not know until Mr. Morèno provides a link. I am not even going to read the rest of the points, it's ridiculous. Here are the 8 paragraphs:

In Africa women are circumsied tight with thorns. As a moslem I regret being circumcised. I have heard on the radio discussion here in Los Angeles that circumcision takes away the joy of sex substantially. You can e-mail it? As a moslem I have heard on the radio discussion here in Los Angeles that circumcision takes away the joy of sex substantially. NO paradise. As a moslem I regret being spammed. I have heard on the radio discussion here in Los Angeles that spamming takes away the joy of sex substantially. [In response to having made 3,000 submissions to over 100 news groups, Afshin responded as follows] And oh, do you think that because I have spammed before makes Sai Baba holy? You are so sloooowwww! Hehehehehe Yes, I spammed, and will continue to do so. Copy this message and post it in all of your messages, OK? NO one will care. Talking Sai Baba is purpose in life. I do not do anything but talk about him but he pays me no attention. Read the following site. Its a must read for anyone who is interested about my Sai Baba. NO BRAINS YOU??? PROVEN NONESENSE ALL THAT!!! YOU THINKING ALL VOMITED AND EATEN AND VOMITED AND EATEN BY YOU OVER OVER MAKES SO??? NONESENSE!!! THINK!!! What's up with porn pervert Tranny? What a COWARD. Tranny, seriously, I have shown that you are a porn pervert who likes sex toys and who visits porn sites, now why don't you sit down and think why Jesus would visit a freak like you? Dumbass! hehehehehe. You are such an easy target. hehehehe. You make yourself look bad, how stupid you are. [This is one, of thousands, of posts Afshin made to sathyasaibaba2] Hey bastard, you don't know any web sites that have the kind of info that he is talking about? You are a liar and you are telling us that Sai Baba is God? Hey bastard, here is what you posted in another newsgroup. The link is my account of sexual molestation, etc. at the hands of Sai Baba, so how can you tell you don't know of such sites? F***ing liar.

My Response: This is not an expose! Thanks to Said Khorramshahgol, I do not have to post 8 of his posts to make him look like a "madman". His 1,180 posts already make him look like a mad man! Said is talking AGAIN about the 3,000 posts that he refuses to say he did not make, in his letter against me. I already discussed this several times and am not going to do it again. Since Said said he was being impersonated by another user, I have deleted these posts and have provided the link to the sathyasaibaba2 online group instead.

Did it ever cross Mr. Morèno's mind that with the many, many accusations that he has listed, he should provide a link or two? Would providing a link have proved his point wrong? Mr. Morèno's lack of links and the fact that he cut and pasted only parts of my responses and the fact that he did not provide any clue as to what I was responding to, makes it look like he was trying to deliberately influence the reader's judgment by denying them the whole picture. At this point I am not sure if I can consider Mr. Morèno as an honest individual with good motives.

My Response: I did provide links. I provided four links that linked to many other links from where I got my information. Thanks to Said (Afshin), now we are getting even a clearer picture! And Said (Afshin) is hardly one to condemn others for "deliberately influencing the reader's judgment by denying the whole picture". Said Khorramshahgol fully supports and promotes anti-SSB sites that do not give the full picture and deliberately try to influence the reader's judgment! Apparently, Said has issues with this when it is applied to him, but could care less when it happens to SSB.

Also, while Mr. Morèno lists some statements that are supposedly mine (until I see some proof, they are supposedly mine), he fails to paint a full picture of me as a person without talking about my other posts where I provide a link to some nice photography, or I try to help people, or where I say that I am acting harsh only because the devotee who is arguing with me acts that way, or where I extend a hand of friendship to this devotee a few times only to be denied with insulting messages in response, etc.

My Response: Said Khorramshahgol almost brought a tear to my eye...of laughter! I'm sorry, but his 1,180 posts speak for themselves. Once you hear the way he speaks, the few kind posts he makes can be deemed insincere!

And so no one will misunderstand, when Said (Afshin) says he "extended his hand to this devotee a few times only to be denied with insulting messages in response", he is not talking about me. Said (Afshin) has never talked to me in person or via email prior to this letter. Ever.

Judge for yourself.

I ask the readers to reserve judgment until Mr. Morèno provides the proofs to back up his accusations. Thank you for giving me equal opportunity to present my defense.

My Response: Again, judge for yourself.