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| Second Response to Afshin Khorramshahgol: Update: December 8th 2004 |
Afshin Khorramshagol Responds to Gèrald Morèno's Response
My Response: It is indeed ironic that Said (Afshin) Khorramshagol signed this letter as, "Afshin Khorramshahgol". In his last letter to me, he said, "This proves that Mr. Morèno did not do a good job in researching or that he got the information from other devotees. My name is not Said Afshin Khorramshahgol but Said Khorramshahgol. This is a typical mistake that some devotees with whom I have had interactions in various groups/newsgroups make. I was given two first names at birth, Said and Afshin. I have said this before. Hopefully, Gèrald Joè Morèno and the others will one day get it right."
Despite Said's accusations against me (saying I did not do my "research") he signed his name as "Afshin Khorramshahgol" in his response to me! Make up your mind Said! Or is it Afshin? Or is it Said Khorram Shagol?
(Coming Soon: Gèrald Morèno's 'Research' Attempts to Rake Muck)
My Response: I'm glad Afshin Khoramshagol is going to write another article. The more he writes, the less I have to defend.
Gèrald Morèno has written about me on his website at http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.com/Witnesses/exbaba-witnesses.html
My Response: It's about time that Afshin finally provided a link a to my site. Now I think that people can get a clearer idea into my claims, as opposed to what Afshin is trying to make them out to be. Afshin provided a reciprocal link after I put pressure on him to do so.
He did not contact me to hear my side of the story but chose to smear me, which has been typical of other devotees who want to defend Sai Baba.
My Response: There is an ample amount of information, about Afshin, that he put on the internet himself. Afshin has (had) many email addresses, and I could not find which one was the most current one. Some of his emails are (were): la_quake@yahoo.com; sai_detective@my-deja.com; shagols@itdc.koreanair.com; mr_mamal_amricaee@my-deja.com; jkhorramsh@aol.com; la_quake@my-deja.com; skhorram@mysmart.com and shahgols@yahoo.com (among several others). I sent my web-site URL to ExBaba.com, SaiGuru.net, SaiPetition.net and several members of JuST. One of the reasons why I sent them my web-site URL was for them to disperse my web-site to all concerned individuals mentioned on my site. I have contact information on every single page, on my site. After writing my article, I found Afshin's current email and sent him my response. He has not responded to my email. So that he is now still attacking me for not contacting him, when he refused to answer my emails sent to him, is hypocritical.
His website uses the phrase 'fair-is-fair', but he has concentrated solely on negativity, never attempting to gain a fair picture of who I really am.
My Response: I think Afshin's responses proves that he is negative. It is amusing to hear Afshin say that I am concentrating "solely on the negative". As if he acts contrary to what he accused me of. His thousands of posts at the sathyasaibaba2 forum show that he has an established, and public, record of being negative. I am simply pointing this out. Anyone can verify this for themselves. Check For Yourself. On post # 41966, Afshin said about me, "Anyone have this liar's email address? Thanks. Never mind, found our little jasmin loving liar's e-mail address. Come to find out, besides lies, he/she likes gardening and trippy Gay Baba pictures which he/she has on her site for download. I wonder if acid is easy to find in New Mexico...why would you make Gay Baba's pictures trippy?" Now, you tell me, who is negative? After making this comment about me, Afshin tried to do damage control by making a relatively nice comment about me. Despite finding my site, and contact information, he chose not to email me (even though he asked for my email)! Rather, he has ExBaba.com publish his letter to me. Also, I am not going bambastic because Afshin's negative attacks and lies about me using "acid". He is entitled to voice his opinions and I am entitled to voice mine. Afshin is saying this is not fair!
[Afshin Quotes Me] "Sanjay Dadlani, made personal attacks and erroneous allegations against me without even making a single inquiry or doing the most basic of research." http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/emails-sanjay-dadlani.html
Is it not cowardly and inconsistent that Mr. Morèno wishes for a courtesy that he also does not extend to Glen Meloy, Sanjay Dadlani, Barry Pittard, and other former devotees? For all his protestations of fairness, he goes on the offensive - as his daily shower of releases on his website shows. Instead of saying, simply, "I should have asked you, sorry."
My Response: I already addressed this issue before, about why I did not contact Afshin. Also, there is a difference betweeen what Sanjay Dadlani said about me and what I said about Afshin. My comments, about Afshin, are backed up by Afshin's own words and postings on the internet. Sanjay Dadlani said I made no effort to contact the Rahm Family or Jed Geyerhahn. The truth of the matter is that this was Sanjay Dadlani's sheer speculation and wrong assumption. And I did email Sanjay Dadlani with the very same response I put on my email correspondence page. Sanjay had no information to back up those claims he made against me. Sanjay just blindly attacked me, a priori. On the other hand, my personal opinions about Afshin are backed up (and cited) by Afshin's own words and postings. None of my opinions were made blindly. I supplied the reasons, and the site links, to support my opinions about Afshin. Apparently, Afshin had not contacted Glen Meloy, Sanjay Dadlani or Barry Pittard. The fact of the matter is that I did email all three of these individuals, and they have refused to email me back with any responses. This also applies to Afshin! When I found out his current email, I sent him my response and he refused to write me back. Now, Afshin is establishing a reputation as a whiner. Consequently, this point, made by Afshin, is baseless.
(Morèno gives a link) …Glen Meloy's famous lie that SSB's "inappropriate sexual behavior confirmed by US officialdom", when in fact, the US Dept. of State said that the reports were "unconfirmed".
Perhaps doing the work of several researches, Mr. Morèno is getting too brain-fatigued to read with basic concentration. The gist of the information about the State Department (quite widely disseminated on the Internet) is that, in May 2004, the BBC contacted its officials and confirmed that it now names Sathya Sai Baba as the subject of its concern, whereas its earlier Advisory did not name him. The information gives the name and two numbers (one for the media, one for the public, by which this information can be confirmed.
My Response: Afshin is changing the topic again. The advisory has nothing to do with my pesonal opinions about Afshin. However, since he changed the topic again, I will respond to his comments.
Afshin is talking about my page about the travel advisory, made by the US State Department, against SSB. Afshin still cannot get the facts right! The current advisory, located at the State Government Site said, "U.S. citizens should be aware that there have been reports of inappropriate sexual behavior by a prominent local religious leader at an ashram or religious retreat located in Andhra Pradesh. Most of the reports indicate that the subjects of these approaches have been young male devotees, including a number of U.S. citizens. Although these reports are unconfirmed, U.S. citizens should be aware of this information and contact the U.S. Consulate General in Chennai for further information." NO mention to Sathya Sai Baba's name is on the advisory. However, the advisory IS about Sathya Sai Baba, as this can be validated by contacting Stuart Patt (Phone: 202-647-2114). Glen Meloy said, "SATHYA SAI BABA'S 'INAPPROPRIATE SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR' CONFIRMED BY U.S. OFFICIALDOM". This is a blatant and pathetic lie. Glen Meloy said that the US State Department "CONFIRMED" SSB's "inappropriate sexual behavior". Anyone, with half a brain, can see that the advisory specifically said that the reports of inappropriate sexual behavior were "UNCONFIRMED". Stuart Batt will only confirm that the article is referring to Sathya Sai Baba. He will NOT confirm alleged sexual abuse allegations! This proves how Afshin will defend lies, in a pathetic effort to vindicate his anti-SSB friends.
Like Bon Giovanni, Mr. Morèno claims that he is not a Sai Baba devotee yet puts vast daily effort in writing against those who question this guru. Gèrald Morèno is hard to trust, yet he thinks that the Sai Baba sexual molestation survivors should send their affidavits to him.
My Response: I am not a SSB devotee. I have openly admitted to having many wonderful, positive experiences with Sathya Sai Baba. I have also had many wonderful, positive experiences with other Spiritual Personalities. This is just a statement of fact. I will also note how Afshin is not providing links to my original comments, and is making oversimplified generalizations about me and my site.
On ExBaba.com's main page, there is a small section that says, "Opinions sometimes even contradict each other but the facts should be correct. If you think that the facts are incorrect, please let us know. The reader is invited to form his or her own opinion on the matter." I made a post in ExBaba.com's guestbook about what I felt were factual inconsistencies against SSB. I never imagined ExBaba.com would respond the way they did. They immediatey deleted my post and started attacking me! I brought many factual inconsistencies to the attention of SaiPetition.net, Robert Priddy and Randi Godager. I also emailed Glen Meloy and Barry Pittard. Meloy and Pittard never responded to my emails. Those who did respond, showed they cared less about the serious issues I raised and cared more about vindictiveness at any cost! It was for these reasons that this site was created.
I made an affidavits page pointing out the fact that there are no public affidavits, on the internet, against SSB. SaiGuru.net stated at: http://www.saiguru.net/english/articles/104newevidence.htm "Similar reactions to other young men with whom Sathya Sai was angry when they did not get sexually aroused are recorded in various of the affidavits on the internet". If this is true, where are these public affidavits that were recorded "on the internet"? On my affidavits page, you will see the negative response I got from asking this question. I also stated that if people feel I am not the proper person to make these affidavits public, then ExBaba.com or SaiGuru.net should do so themselves. However, they should supply the same information that I ask for on my site. No one has been willing to do this, despite the fact that this would greatly vindicate their claims to affidavits being made against SSB! Affidavits are not incriminating in themselves. However, anti-SSB sites fail to provide any proof to back up their claims.
Failure to expose Sai Baba as a child molester, among other terrible failings, is a dereliction of good community morals and ethics. If he will consult his conscience, Mr. Morèno must know this. But he has not raised his voice in protest. Rather, via other website activity, he exalts Sai Baba, and goes to great effort to provide fine photos of him and his surroundings.
My Response: I am not aware of any verifiable claims of SSB molesting children. A child is between the ages of 1-12. Can Afshin provide us with any proof that SSB molested children? I am aware of only one claim, against SSB, in which it was alleged that SSB sodomized a 7 year old boy. This story came from an anonymous source and was attributed to Dr. Bhatia. However, Robert Priddy said that the boy was not 7 years old, but in the 7th grade (approximately 14 years old). Dr. Bhatia supposedly had a conversation with Mick Brown and never repeated this claim or made any reference to it. This story is unsubstantiated, has no paper trail (despite the boy being taken to a Bangalore and seeing a doctor) and came from a person who withholds his/her identity!
I think Afshin is hardly the type of person who should be telling others what is a "dereliction of good community morals and ethics"! I think his thousands of posts on the sathyasaibaba2 online group, proves that Afshin has a "dereliction of good community morals and ethics". Especially considering his potty mouth! I discuss my opinions about the alleged sexual abuse on my Witnesses Section
Afshin obviously did not look at my pictures of SSB. I do not provide any pictures of SSB's "surroundings". Look for yourself. And it was not a "great effort". I provide far more images of Hindu Gods and Goddesses than I provide of SSB. Again, Afshin making misleading gereralizations. Take a look at my site
Approaching many governments, national police forces, institutions, leaders in various religions and other belief systems, many former devotees have made tremendous sacrifices of time and energy, driven by conscience, to bring about independent investigations of Sai Baba and his leadership, but are dishonestly dismissed by pro Sai Baba activists as being disgruntled, liars, motivated by hatred, etc.
My Response: It is undeniable that the anti-SSB campaign is being waged by comparatively few people. These people have shown that they are indeed disgruntled, angry and are motivated by hate. I am not the first to point this out. I most certainly won't be the last. I guess Robert Priddy posting murdered, bloodied corpses on his web pages is not angry or disgruntled? Especially when he no proof that SSB was associated with it in any way! And I guess Barry Pittard posting his anti-SSB info on every single forum he can find is also not motivated by anger? Especially the post that Barry Pittard made to the Adelaide Institute, which is both a hate group and anti-semitic! Look at the bulk of anonymous stories dispersed as the "truth" by ExBaba.com. Look at the anti-SSB spamming of the petition. Look at SaiPetition.net, Robert Priddy and Randi Godager's responses to my valid and pertinent questions. And look at Afshin's own posts on sathyasaibaba2 forum! He calls SSB names in just about every single post and makes acidic, angry and hateful slurs. As a matter of fact, people are free to say anything they want. I have no problem with this. But I think the general public should be made aware of Afshin's postings that point directly at his credibility and state of mind. And this is just the tip of the iceberg! Click Here to see how I caught ExBaba.com lying and trying to cover up their lie! This proves that ExBaba.com lied, is disgruntled and did what they did, motivated by hate.
Despite what Mr. Morèno and other antagonists have said, there are many former devotees from many countries, and their integrity was not in question when they were devotees, and they stand high in their own communities, workplaces, and so on. Mr. Morèno and other pro Sai activists slander many wonderful people, one after the other.
My Response: It is not "slander" when I there are thousands of posts to back up my pesonal opinions about Afshin.
[Afshin Quotes Me] My opinion regarding Said Khorramshahgol's mental state is my own personal opinion. I never claimed it was a diagnosis. Is Said Khorramshahgol a psychiatrist or a psychologist who can diagnose sexual disorders? He gives his own opinions regarding SSB's sexual disorders.
In common with so many others down the years, I was sexually molested by Sai Baba. He made sexual noises while playing with my penis and yet Mr. Morèno says that I am giving my own "opinions" of Sai Baba's "sexual disorders." Professional abuse professionals have told us that no therapy succeeds that does not regard the sexually abused client as experts, in our own way.
My Response: We all know about the "sexual noises" that Afshin says SSB allegedly made when sexually abusing him. As has been pointed out before, such noises would have been heard by others, outside the private interview room, if SSB did, indeed, make those "loud" sounds. Afshin says at: http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/witnesses/said.html of SSB, "he was making loud noises...As I said before, he was making loud voices while he was doing that...It was his way of covering the sick idea of having me touch him, and also covering his loud, wild voices." At the time Afshin had these interviews, all that separated the personal interview room, with the main interview room, was a doorway covered with a curtain! Despite this fact, SSB made "loud, wild voices and noises" for everyone to hear! In my opinion, either Afshin is lying or exaggerating. Either scenario does not look good for Afshin.
I am not diagnosing Sai Baba's sexual disorder. I assert that he is not who he says he is. Mr. Morèno says that he wishes to acquaint the "general public with both sides of the story". But virtually every day, the welter of words almost daily flooding onto his site suggests one overwhelming agenda: to deflect attention away from the worldwide accusations against Sai Baba. Strangely, Mr. Morèno believes that Sai Baba "has engaged in sexual acts with young men". So when will Mr. Morèno direct his efforts to demand accountability from Sai Baba and his officials?
My Response: Afshin is lying. He continually refers to SSB as "Gay Baba", among other types of slurs. I find it amusing that Afshin is denying this fact. Doesn't surpise me. My site is all about the worldwide investigations. I am not deflecting away from it all. As a matter of fact, the worldwide investigations are the focus of my site! Everyone needs to be made aware of those who are waging the worldwide investigations. The people who are waging this online war, are resorting to calumny, lies and unsubstantiated attacks. Let me give you a perfect example. After contacting ExBaba.com about removing my images, scripts and template design that they stole from my site, they responded by saying I was violating their copyright that specifically stated, "Copyright 01-12-2000: No part of this site may be copied without permission of the autors." ExBaba.com deceitfully added this copyright statement, trying to make it appear as if the statement was on their site since 01-12-2000. This despite the fact that ExBaba.com was not created until 2001! However, I was able to conclusively prove that the copyright statement was added recently. Seeing the screen captured proof, ExBaba.com rushed to take it off. Too late! I caught them red-handed! Don't expect to see Afshin complaining about this blatant lie that Exbaba.com told and tried to cover up.
And then, ExBaba.com, SaiGuru.net, SaiPetition.net and Robert Priddy's site, all banned my site from linking to their site and directed their links, on my site, to a hack-page that popped up hundreds of windows that forced people to turn off their computers! I have always provided links for the general public to read both sides of the story. These Anti-SSB sites are so threatened by my points, they banned my site from linking to them! First, they steal my images, template design and scripts, then they accuse me of copyright infringement for using screen captures of their site, then they use screen captures of my site (while still accusing me of copyright infringement for using screen captures of their site), then they ban my site from linking to them, and then these Anti-SSB sites blame me of engaging in "illegal" activities by posting email correspondence from anti-SSB activists. Yet, in true hypocritical form, they are completely mum about their dozens and dozens of letters that they have published, for years, from people who they did not get permission from! Just look at ExBaba.com's Letters Section at: http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/letters.html These Anti-SSB sites have much to fear. Their hypocrisy is bulging from the seams and the tide is turning. They can't take the heat.
A link to my Internet account of how I felt guilty about not being able to live up to Sai Baba's teachings proves nothing, but to Mr. Morèno it means that I am crazy for feeling guilty and letting guilt push me towards depression and paranoia. Considering the immensity and age-old, continuing, widespread nature of the allegations, he grasps at straws.
My Response: Afshin said that he convinced himself that he was "crazy". He said he was paranoid, depressed, desperate and guilty. I guess, according to Afshin, when a person is paranoid, crazy, depressed, desperate and guilty, they do not have mental issues! It is also important to point out that Afshin admits he had many of these issues prior to coming to SSB.
He provides a link to an MSN group called SaiBabaMaestroeAvatar where I supposedly spammed over 1,200 times, but when you go to that group, you will not find any posts from me, let alone 1,200 of them. He provides a link to a Yahoo group where I have been active off and on, saying that I have posted a lot of messages there. But what are such groups for? Again, this link proves nothing. Mr. Morèno's last link was to some posts that were supposed to be from me. But the person posting under my name was not me, as Mr. Morèno is now forced to agree. Likewise, this last link proves nothing.
My Response: Afshin never denied making the posts. Even in his original letter to me, he never denied making them. Now, he is having a change of heart! He did admit, under the name of la_quake, to making over 3,000 posts in over 100 newsgroups. I already discussed this on my original response.
[Afshin Quotes Me] These things show that Said had "many problems" prior to coming to SSB. This is just a statement of fact, backed up by Afshin Khorramshahgol's own words.
As I said in my account of sexual abuse at the hands of Sai Baba, I felt very guilty for failing to follow ALL of the teachings of Sai Baba and as a result the guilt made me depressed over time. Mr. Morèno and other devotees make the point that this is an "evidence" that "proves" that I have mental problems. What does my state of mind before, during, and after seeing Sai Baba prove? That I was not sexually abused?
My Response: Again, I guess, according to Afshin, when a person is paranoid, crazy, depressed, desperate and guilty, they do not have mental issues! I never said that Afshin was not sexually abused. I said that I doubt his story. I gave reasons why I doubt him. It's that simple. Afshin fails to see that I list his testimony among the 7 accounts of sexual abuse, alleged against SSB. Reading Afshin's testimonies, in conjunction with his postings on the internet, gives me the impression of a very disturbed individual. That is my personal opinion. Again, people are free to agree or disagree with me. I am simply providing additional information, about Afshin, that ExBaba.com failed to provide about him.
What is Mr. Morèno's agenda? Does not he recall the troubles of puberty and adolescence? In any case, does being "very confused" say everything about a person's state of being? About his sense of purpose to existence? Does being "unhappy" or in "mental torment" or even "desperate" (my words) constitute mental illness?
My Response: In my opinion, it is one thing to be very confused and unhappy. It's another thing to be paranoid, admitting to being crazy and having mental torment and desperation! That is my opinion and I am stating it.
Even if Gèrald Morèno thinks that others run a negative smear campaign, is it right for him to conduct his own?
My Response: It is not a "smear campaign" when I have the posts and articles to back it up!
[Afshin Quotes Me] I said that, in my opinion, Said Khorramshagol had "acute mental issues" due to his online activity and behavior. I did not attribute his "acute mental issues" to his many problems
Mr. Morèno is not qualified to make any such conclusions and the fact that he insists on pushing his unproven opinions on his web site shows that he has an agenda to smear me. Is Morèno's 'fair' really fair?
My Response: Just as Afshin made a mental diagnosis on Conscientious Objector, and that was his opinion, I similarly, am expressing my opinion about Afshin, backed up with his own words. Once again, I am never claimed to have the qualifications to make any diagnosis. I am entitled to my opinion, however. I know this is getting redundant (Gee, are you wondering why Afshin is repeating himself over and over? I am.), but, it is not a "smear campaign" when I have Afshin's words to back up my opinions!
I quote from my first response to him, one that he remains very silent about. In my recent reply to him, I placed his attempts to discredit me in a tradition seen not least in two of the most renowned Sai Baba leaders:
"In case it is thought that such shameful psychologizing is confined to rank and file Sai devotees, let it be recalled that it has been used by top Sai leaders such as Dr. Hislop when he refers to the testimony of a boy devotee from Northern California as 'teen anxiety and projection.' (Memo, January 18, 1981, in possession of a former Sai leader Dr. Timothy Conway, of Santa Barbara, USA.) Similarly, the Rahm family relates how Dr. Michael Goldstein said that their son might be 'delusional.' Again, rather than provide, for example, an independent, third party professional assessment, there is the attempt to attribute mental symptoms."
My Response: Afshin is guilty of "psychologizing" others too. Once again, as Afshin is eerily silent on what I posted about him when Afshin made a mental diagnosis on Conscientious Objector, calling her "parnoid and delusional" (01) in response to a post by saiexposed420 who diagnosed her, and SSB, as being schizophrenics. Afshin saw NO problem with saiexposed420 making these psychological diagnosis! Afshin agreed with him! Afshin calls Conscientious Objector "brainwashed idiot" (02); "schizophrenic COWARD" (03); "pschizophrenic lunatic" (04) and "She is schizophrenic and the guy just used her and threw her out in the trash when he was done". Click Here for a sample of the extreme and graphic language that Afshin likes to use. Afshin stated his own psychological opinions about Conscientious Objector, yet has the audacity to say that others are not allowed to do the same with him. This points to Afshin's hypocrisy, once again.
I did not reply to Afshin's statements about Goldstein and Hislop, because they were totally irrelevant to my comments about him. However, since Afshin is wanting to drag this conversation into the next century, I will address his point. I have not seen the alleged letter from Dr. Hislop. Consequently, I cannot comment on it. Dr. Goldstein did ask the Rahm Family if they thought their son "might be delusional". It was a question. Not a statement of fact. Nor was it a diagnosis. Afshin, despite pointing out letters by Dr. Hislop and Dr. Goldstein, fails to address David Wilcock's bogus diagnosis at: http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/articles/wilcock.html of SSB! David Wilcock does not have any credentials to make the diagnosis he did. Nevertheless, Afshin doesn't seem to care in the least! This shows how Afshin is waging a one-sided attack, despite blaming me of doing so!
In any case, let all those Sai devotees who attempt to pin the madness slur know that even the mad are not exempt from being sexually abused!
My Response: It is important to point out that Afshin did not attribute his depression, guilt, desperation, being crazy and feeling paranoid because of his alleged sexual abuse. Afshin said he felt all these things because he could not practice all of SSB's teachings.
[Afshin Quotes Me] If this ever went to a court of law, it is certain that Said Afshin Khorramshahgol's online behavior would play a huge role in discrediting his integrity. Anyone who reads Khorramshahgol's posts will see the only person involved in a "smear campaign" is him. This much is absolutely certain.
Whatever tactics lawyers may use, the fact remains: I was sexually abused by Sai Baba. What matters is my own truth to myself. Glance at the literature of sexual abuse. In some cases, the sexually abused are afraid to go to court, simply because they do not wish to be twice victimized, this time by antagonistic lawyers. No chance that 'fair-is-fair' – unless, of course, we survivors go out of our way to ensure that we are exceptionally well represented by legal counsel.
My Response: I hope Afshin is very well represented by legal counsel. He is going to need it.
[Afshin Quotes Me]…my comments are limited to ExBaba.com. I have heard many accusations against the Sai Organization, yet these accusations seem to be nothing more than vitriolic attacks.
Mr. Morèno forgets fast that he admitted that Sai Baba has had sex with young "men". So, not all of our accusations are baseless, are they?
My Response: That is correct. Not all the accusations are baseless. My personal opinion is that I doubt Afshin's account due to his online behavior on online groups and the very disturbing comments he makes about himself in his testimonies. I am entitled to my opinion and I think I have made it very clear why I feel the way I do. Others are free to either accept or reject my viewpoints. I am simply providing additional information, about Afshin, that ExBaba.com failed to provide about him. I substaniated my opinions with the words used by Afshin himself.
And since Mr. Morèno openly supports and defends, as an Indian Saint, a convicted murderer and a rapist who is serving two life sentences in India, is hard for the rest of us to pay any attention to him when he says "these accusations seem to be nothing more than vitriolic attacks".
My Response: I am assuming that Afshin does not speak English very well. Because I never claimed being an "Indian Saint". I am not even Indian!
Filling in the gaps, Afshin is misleadingly try to present what I really said. Not only does he poorly word the point he is trying to make, he also fuses an entirely different reply of mine, with his own misleading claim. Why doesn't Afshin provide the web-links to where I said these things? This shows how poorly he researches my site. This comment, by Afshin, is about Swami Premananda. Swami Premananda has nothing to do with my personal opinions regarding Afshin. However, since he has strayed from the original topic, I will repeat what I have said, over and over, about Swami Premananda.
Afshin is engaging in an ad hominem fallacy by attacking me because I have pictures of Swami Premananda on my site. My site has much more than just pictures of Premananda. Click here to view my site. Despite Afshin taking a moral stand against Swami Premananda, Afshin has NO problem with Barry Pittard posting his anti-SSB articles on the Adelaide Institute's website, which the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs considers to be both a hate-group and anti-semitic (they deny the holocaust ever happened)! Now which is more egregious? Swami Premananda or the Anti-Semitic, Hate-Mongering People who deny the holocaust ever happened? I know my answer and Afshin knows his. Click Here to view my article about Barry Pittard and how he tries to rally support from people who openly deny the holocaust ever happened!
Furthermore, the reason I made a small pictures section for Swami Premananda is because I have had spiritual experiences with him. I have never physically seen him. I do not provide external links or solicit him in any other way. People are free to view his pictures or not. My site began as a hobby that provides images with spiritual personalities with whom I have had personal, spiritual experiences with. That's it. My site has over one thousand images on it, and Swami Premananda only comprises .02% of those images (19 pictures). Many people believe that Swami Premananda was framed and even the police officers, at the jail where he is at, believe he is not guilty. He was even allowed to leave the prison, to visit his ashram, for several weeks. There are current efforts to vindicate him and supposedly, many of the 32 complaints brought against him have been shown to be false. The DNA testing is also being challenged and has proven the most difficult, due to a significant time lapse. [Update: January 1st, 2005: Click Here to view Robert Priddy's confession about the corruption prevalent in India, the Indian Justice System and with Indian Police Officers.] [Update: August 5th 2005: Click Here too see how the UK's leading DNA expert, Dr. Wilson J. Wall, testified that the DNA samples do not belong to Swami Premananda. Also, all of the alleged rape victims said they were tortured into giving fake testimonies and have since recanted their original statements against Premananda.]
To try to make this an issue about Swami Premananda's "pictures" is preposterous and desperate. This is the only thing that Afshin is holding on to, in a vain attempt to detract from answering the tough questions I raised on my web pages about him.
Afshin takes my comment of "these accusations seem to be nothing more than vitriolic attacks" and uses it with his post about Swami Premananda. First of all, this quote, that Afshin used, was never used in relation with Swami Premananda. It was used in my response, to Afshin, about the Sai Organization. That Afshin tries to mislead people by fusing a post never used in relation with Swami Premananda, to make his case against me, shows how desperate he truly is.
Why have Mr. Morèno and so many Sai devotees refused to hold Sai Baba and his organization to the civil, moral and ethical accountability that are expected of the rest of us? Have they never stopped to consider the terrible battle sexual abuse survivors have to get their accounts listened to?
[Afshin Quoting Me] Why hasn't Said Khorramshahgol refused to hold ExBaba.com, Robert Priddy, Randi Godager and the SaiPetition.net webmasters to the, "civil, moral and ethical accountability that are expected of the rest of us"?
This "you too" retort is most dishonest, and evades one of the foremost questions to be asked of Mr. Morèno: why does he show little or no concern for holding Sai Baba and his officials to the civil, moral and ethical accountability that are expected of the rest of us?
My Response: For the very same reason that Afshin shows very little or no concern for holding ExBaba.com and it's members to the civil, moral and ethical accountability that are expected of the rest of us.
In any case, I am not out there writing articles about web sites. Nor do I represent Exbaba. It is a general website which accepts the expressions of a range of former devotees, not all of whom agree about ways and means by which to expose. Again, let Mr. Morèno stick to the point.
My Response: I never said that Afshin "represented" ExBaba.com. Afshin IS writing articles about my website! This is another amusing comment by Afshin. He is implying that since he is not "representing" ExBaba.com, he does not have to hold ExBaba.com to the same accountability that he expects me to hold with the Sai Organization! Afshin, I am not "representing" the Sai Organization. So my excuse is the same as yours! And thank you Afshin for admitting that former devotees do not agree with each other. I agree. I am addressing these disagreements openly and head on. That is the point, and I am sticking to it.
[Afshin Quotes Me] This is perhaps the reason why the Sai Organization has refused to talk to any of the anti-SSB activists. I believe my web pages about the online petition proves this beyond any doubt.
As many media, institutions and even more thoughtful Sai devotees well know, the Sai Organization is a monolith. Famously, like many an authoritarian cult, it does not respond to queries or criticisms. Many former devotees have tried to broach their concerns with the Sathya Sai Organization all the way to the top. E.g., Mrs. Gypsie Chapotin, Mrs. Ella Evers, Mrs. Shirley Pike, Mrs Elena Hartgering, the Rahm family, Rick Raines, Glen Meloy, Dr. Timothy Conway, Serguei Badaev, Stephen Carthew, Hans de Kraker, Barry Pittard, Robert Priddy, ….. In some cases, the approach was made while still members of the Sai Organization, which they had wished would show compassion, duty of care and courageous truthfulness.
My Response: I admit that the Sai Centers failed in addressing the valid concerns of devotees who were questioning. However, my comments were not about the Sai Centers. My comments were about anti-SSB activisits and how they will lie and deceive the general public at any cost. Why should anyone talk to them when they have such blatant disregard for the truth? Afshin is not differentiating between devotees who concerns were not addressed and my comments that directly pertain to the current anti-SSB activists. I must also point out that the anti-SSB cult does not respond to queries or criticisms either. And when I confronted the anti-SSB activists, I was shown no "compassion, duty of care and courageous truthfulness" either! Once again, Afshin taking sides.
Mr. Morèno fails to be fair and honest, even in the act of accusing others of being unfair and dishonest… He flees the question. He avoids the moral and ethical duty that former devotees have accepted: that is, to expect accountability from Sai Baba and his Organization.
My Response: I am not fleeing the question. When I come to the articles that deal with how Sai Centers or the Sai Organization improperly dealt with a devotee, I will most certainly express my opinion. However, my site is about ExBaba.com. It is upto ExBaba.com to put the truth out regarding the Sai Organization. If it is the truth, it should stand up to the scrutiny. And former devotees are avoiding the moral and ethical duty of expecting accountability from ExBaba.com and other anti-SSB sites. This goes two-ways, Afshin!
[Afshin Quoting Me] I simply provided links, with comments, for others to research so they can form at their own independent conclusions.
[Afshin Quoting Me] The links are proof for the points I made about Said's spamming and comments, unless, of course, Said is denying he made the comments and "la_quake" isn't his online name either.
Mr. Morèno did not mention anywhere in his article that what he wrote is his opinion, which is dishonest.
My Response: *sigh* I guess that when a person says something, or expresses their thoughts, it is NOT their opinion!
He also did not provide any links in his last response to prove or disprove anything. A link to my account of how I felt guilty proves nothing.
He provides a link to an MSN group called SaiBabaMaestroeAvatar where I supposedly spammed over 1,200 times, but when you go to that group, you will not find any posts from me, let alone 1,200 of them. No 'proof' there!
He provides a link to a Yahoo group saying that I have posted a lot of messages there. Again, this link proves nothing.
His last link was to some posts that were supposed to be from me. Except that the person posting under my name was not me. In his response, Mr. Morèno now agrees that the person is not me. So again, this last link is not proof either.
My Response: Afshin apparently did not read my response. I did provide the link. I provided it under the relevant section. After all, he repeats himself so much, I can't keep up with his redundancy! Okay Afshin, once again, here is the link. One of the posts reads, "la_quake@my-deja.com teased SAME SPAM HUNDREDS NEWS GROUP 3000 TIME!!! And oh, do you think that because I have spammed before makes Sai Baba holy? You are so sloooowwww! Hehehehehe NO ONE CARES THE SAI BABA!!! YOU SPAM STOPPING!! Yes, I spammed, and will continue to do so. Copy this message and post it in all of your messages, OK? NO one will care".
When these claims were made against Afshin, he never once denied making all these posts. Not once! Now, he is having a change of heart. The posts made by sai_detective are the same ones made by Afshin under the name "la_quake@my-deja.com". And these links do prove that Afshin seems to be obsessed with SSB. The links also prove that Afshin bashes SSB every time he gets and shows how he will make posts numbering in the thousands against SSB. This reveals his mental issues, in my opinion.
[Afshin Quoting Me] These things show that Said had "many problems" prior to coming to SSB. This is just a statement of fact, backed up by Afshin Khorramshahgol's own words.
When I read my account that he refers to (which he conveniently posts), nowhere did I find the words "many problems" that he says I uttered.
My Response: I didn't say Afshin uttered the phrase "many problems". That was my quote and I was simply referencing it because I was justifying why I felt Afshin had "many problems", in my opinion! All of the other posts, I cited, from Afshin, supported my contention that Afshin has, in my opinion, "many problems".
Mr. Morèno forgets that truth shall always prevail. He had the same feelings as I did before I met Sai Baba. And yet acts as if he has no idea what I was feeling. Dear reader, would you imagine it? - a little research discloses that Mr. Morèno's experience below is very similar to my own, before and after I became a devotee of Sai Baba.
My Response: This is going to be very amusing.
"During my teen years, I was searching very intensely for God. Everything seemed "empty" to me and I felt that the only way I would every experience being whole or complete, was if I could find God or Truth."
My Response: No mention of being paranoid, being crazy or being desperate!
"I cried all night. I felt like I made a huge mistake in coming to India. Everyone was right, I wasted all of my money and time coming to India and it was just a total failure. I could not take it anymore. I decided that the next day, I would get my return flight back to my country. I was terribly distraught and disappointed. I cried and cried and finally got a couple hours of sleep around 4a.m."
My Response: No mention of being paranoid, being crazy or being desperate! Also, a selective quote that does not tell the whole story. Want the whole story? Click Here.
"Baba said, 'Go.' I was completely overwhelmed. I could not stop crying. For the first time in my life, I felt like my prayers had been heard. I am sure everyone thought I was dying because I could not stop crying!”
My Response: I was crying because I was completely overwhelmed. Not because of paranoia or being crazy.
http://www.geocities.com/www0db0www/ExperiencesSai.html
[Afshin Quoting Me] …my comments are limited to ExBaba.com. I have heard many accusations against the Sai Organization, yet these accusations seem to be nothing more than vitriolic attacks.
My Response: Afshin repeating himself AGAIN!
There are many serious articles on sites like:
http://www.Exbaba.com
http://home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma
http://bdsteel.tripod.com/More/index.html
My Response: I have already addressed much of the negative propaganda and critical contradictions listed on these sites. This proves that Afshin is one-sided and does not care the least about inaccuracies and blatant contradictions. And these sites are so threatened by me, they banned me from linking to their site. That is proof enough that they have much to fear and are running scared.
These raise many compelling questions about serious anomalies, historical distortions, contradictions, time-falsified prophecies by a supposedly all-knowing Sai Baba, and evidence that suggests massive cover-ups by some of his closest leaders, and by the Indian authorities. They ask questions that Mr. Morèno and other Sai Baba-struck propagandists and apologists simply will not answer, or at least answer truthfully.
My Response: Afshin has obviously read these three sites in the same manner he read my response to him! I have addressed many of the issues raised on these three anti-SSB sites. A majority of the claims are unsubstantiated. No proof to back them up whatsoever! Afshin, apparently, has not read my site. I address many critical contradictions and issues about Robert Priddy and Brian Steel. This proves that Afshin is attacking me without having read my site! Sad.
[Afshin Quoting Me] None of this addresses the issues I raise on my site. I have stated that I believe that SSB is not God. Nor do I deny many of the points Afshin just made. Again, Afshin is desperately trying to justify his failure to give answers by pointing fingers at SSB. No one is helping me.
What? No one contributes to the massive amount of research that Mr. Morèno is able to martial in a matter of hours, day-by-day? This is not to mention all the technical work that he puts into the construction of his critical website.
My Response: Once again, Afshin has not read my site. I have not gathered all of my information and research in "hours, day-by-day". I have been gathering my information, and doing my research, over the past 2 months. Forgive me for actually knowing my material and researching it. Also, as I have said before, I created the template design to my web site myself. Making a web page is as easy as inserting the text once the template is made! This is clear to anyone with basic web-designing skills. Afshin thinks that because he can't conceive of this "huge task" (my words), that I can't do it! Well, I have proven him wrong. I can do it and it has been done! By the way, you won't see Afshin criticizing ExBaba.com for stealing my images, scripts and template design (that I made myself) without asking for my permission!
[Afshin Quoting Me] I just found it very strange that he reacted with such profound mental anguish, to the point of feeling "crazy" and having "paranoia".
I think Mr. Morèno does find the feelings of others strange. Hence my remark about 'heart-absent labyrinths'. I can assure him that the manner of his critical onslaught has not won the trust of a number of Sai Baba sexual molestees and their families whose response I know of. Therefore, we certainly will not share with him details of our deep sense of hurt and betrayal, nor the steps that are slowly, rather painfully being taken to properly witness to the abuses, and to obtain some sort of closure for ourselves. I am not sorry that I have attempted to make public my sense of betrayal by Sai Baba, but I do pray that as I grow older and wiser I will find better ways to channel my hurts and anger, and yet still work hard to expose this great spiritual fraudulence that has stricken the world.
My Response: I will end this response by saying that those who choose to disperse their stories of alleged sexual abuse on hate sites, that openly resort to lies, dishonesty and propaganda, must be prepared to face tough questions. Afshin is openly antagonistic towards SSB. Despite Afshin's great lengths to appear impartial and open-minded, I feel that my letters reveal that Afshin is neither impartial nor open-minded. I can substantiate my opinions by referencing Afshin's own words on the internet and on his testimonies. This rambling correspondence has done nothing to change my opinion about Afshin. As a matter of fact, it has only reinforced my opinions. Afshin must get a grip and accept the fact that people are going to question him, and his motives, as long as he associates himself with, and defends, the lies, contradictions and unsubstantiated allegations dispersed by anti-SSB sites.
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I am in no way associated with the Sai Organization, nor do I belong to any Sai Group/Center. I alone decided to make these pages with no external prompting or guidance. All the material on these pages are the sole and original opinions of me, Gèrald Morèno. Copyright 2004: This page may be duplicated and distributed freely, as long as it is done so in its entirety or you may quote from it as long as you provide a link back to this page and you inform me of the site on which it is being placed. Other uses are prohibited. Please feel free to Contact Me to make suggestions or comments. |
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