LISA TICE

From: Lisa Tice (December 10th 2004)
Subject: Vishvarupa Email
To: Joe

Please see my comments after this quote from your site:

“ - Dave Brandt’s letter to Barbara
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/letters/davebarbara.html

This letter reveals how poorly Dave Brandt researched his “facts”. He claims that there was an assassination attempt on SSB’s life because of his “sexual sins“, something very, very few agree with, including Robert Priddy. He also claims there were “hundreds” of bullet holes all over the mandir. This is false. There were 27-32 bullets that were fired. And he insinuates SSB ordered for the four assailants to be shot to death. Another unsubstantiated claim. Dave Brandt, please provide us with the documentation. It is also obvious that Dave Brandt did not research “The Findings” either. There are numerous contradictions in it. He also repeats the famous lie that SSB molested a 7 year old boy. Which has been clarified by Robert Priddy as being a 7th grade (14 year old) boy and which was told by an anonymous person who said he got the story from Dr. Bhatia.”

How can you take yourself seriously? A hundred bullets? Does 27-32 bullets sound a lot less foreboding???

A seven year old? Does a seventh grader sound less important where child molestation is concerned?

Do you have any idea what you are defending? It is completely enigmatic to me how people who otherwise have good intentions for the world (I was among you for 15 years), can minimize and not want to further investigate the seriousness of the reports against Sai Baba. Do you think that everyone who has made a report has some hidden agenda to become famous or somehow earn monetary or other gain by making these accusations? What motives can there possibly be, other than wanting to protect children?!!

And yet, all the hypocrites in the sb organization continue to blindly follow and defend this man because, selfishly, you do not want to give up your perceived spiritual gains. You would rather “merge with God” in your own perceived fashion than defend innocent children.

I am sorry for you.

-Lisa Tice

RESPONSE TO LISA TICE

From: Joe (December 10th 2004)
Subject: Re: Vishvarupa Email
To: Lisa Tice

Hello Lisa. Thank you for your email. I can see that I need to make another update on the article you cited. Before I do, I would like to point a few things out.

First, I will stick to the facts. Exaggerations of facts are not becoming of me. The fact that you do not care that Dave Brandt IS exaggerating is revealing in itself. Once a person resorts to blatant exaggerations, their accounts are no longer trustworthy. Especially when the facts of the matter are known. If you do not care, that someone is saying to the general public, that “hundreds” (plural, denoting 2 hundred or more) of bullets were fired by 5-6 police officers (making it appear that each police officer fired 40+ times), when factually, only 27-32 bullets were fired (which would mean that each police officer fired 5 to 6 times), then this tells me that you don’t care much about the truth, nor do you care about the implications of such blatant exaggerations. “Hundreds” of bullets would definitely support an egregious violation of justice. However, on the other hand, 27-32 bullets would fit in with a self-defense scenario. Apparently, you do not care about these exaggerations. I do.

I have stated, on my web-site, that one case of sexual abuse would be one too many. I agree with you. Children must be protected at any cost. However, to better inform you, the story of the 7-year old boy came from an anonymous source that was attributed to Dr. Bhatia. Dr. Bhatia has not confirmed the story, despite speaking to Mick Brown. This story has no way of being verified despite the child allegedly being taken to Bangalore, being examined by a doctor and the doctor confirming sexual abuse. If this had really happened, the police would have been called in. The fact remains that no police were called, no doctor’s name was cited and no documentation of a doctor’s visit was ever supplied. If you want to be swayed, by anonymous stories, that is your choice. It is not my choice. Dave Brandt spreads an anonymous story as fact and the truth. Robert Priddy said the 7 year old boy was a 7th grade boy, which would make the boy 14 years old. Not 7. I am simply stating these facts. In this article, I did not mention that this story came from a person who dispersed this story under the guise of anonymity. I will update this article with that information. Ironically, Robert Priddy calls people, who do no use their real names, “cowardly creatures”. Despite Robert Priddy’s opinion, regarding anonymous people, he turns right around and disperses an anonymous story as the truth! I guess you don’t care about this either?

It is ironic that you are implying that I do not want to further investigate the seriousness of the reports against Sathya Sai Baba. Apparently, if you are serious in making a genuine investigation, why is it that I have to point out these anonymous allegations and critical contradictions on Anti-SSB sites? Why is it that these Anti-SSB activists blindly believe everything they are being told and disperse these anonymous stories as the truth? I am sure that if someone made an anonymous allegation, of sexual abuse, against you, you would immediately demand a name, time and evidence. I am sure you would also affirm your innocence until proven guilty. However, when it comes to SSB, people like you could care less for names, times and evidence. This is a two way street. Not a one-way disinformation highway that has been dominated by Anti-SSB activists.

Lisa, you ask me, “What other motives can there possibly be, other than wanting to protect children?” I will tell you what “other motives” there are. There are people who are willing to slander SSB because they dislike him. I discussed this on my section about the petition and how it appears as if one person is making multiple posts, under different names. These people are dispersing lies, under fake names, and Anti-SSB sites are drinking it up like wine. In their feverish intoxication, they spread these false stories without even investigating them thoroughly. I am making an attempt to provide more information than is provided on purely Anti-SSB sites. Are you aware that white supremacists have posted their images on a well-known SSB discussion board? It certainly does seem that white supremacists have a bone to pick with SSB. Why else would they be going to a SSB discussion board and posting their white-supremacist propaganda? Are you aware that Barry Pittard has posted his comments, about SSB, on the Adelaide Institute website? The Adelaide Institute is a hate group that is anti-Semitic and they deny the holocaust ever happened. Why is Barry Pittard posting on an anti-Semitic site? Even people who are Anti-SSB, like Greg Gerson, have raised crucial questions about the integrity of the people who make sexual abuse allegations against SSB. Serguei Badaev also admitted to me, that the numbers given of sexual abuse victims, are exaggerated. Do you care? Apparently not. You are using the few cases of sexual abuse, that appear genuine, to justify claims of hundreds and even thousands of sexual abuse allegations. I would ask you to do one thing for me. Have ExBaba.com, SaiGuru.net or Robert Priddy compile a thorough list of sexual abuse victims that use their real names and that have some sort of contact information. See what happens. ExBaba.com tried, and I have discussed their failures on my Witnesses Section.

Lisa, instead of judging me, a priori, I would recommend that you ask me about myself before you blame me of wanting “perceived spiritual gains” and wanting to “merge with God”. Neither of these things are my goals in life. My spiritual ideas are very different than those given by Organized Religion, Hinduism and Gurus. Consequently, my motives in researching the truth for myself have nothing to do with spirituality at all. As a matter of fact, the prime reason I made my web-site is because when I raised some vital concerns, to anti-SSB activists, I was immediately attacked and my concerns went completely ignored.

Lisa, in summation, not only have you admitted that blatant exaggerations of the truth are justifiable, you have also arrived at very erroneous conclusions about me. I most certainly hope this is not the standard by which you investigate “facts”. It most certainly does appear that this is the way you conduct your investigations and arrive at your conclusions.

Consequently, I feel sorry for you too.

Sincerely,

Joe

RESPONSE FROM LISA TICE - EMAIL ONE

From: Lisa Tice (December 11th 2004)
Subject: Re: Vishvarupa Email
To: Joe

Joe, thank you for responding to my email from yesterday. I wrote it after merely scanning your website. Today, I looked further at it, and read the most current and detailed letter posted that Al Rahm wrote you in November of this year. Al phoned me in September of 2000, and what he told me in our conversation then is consistent with what has emerged in interviews with himself and his son (as well as his letter to you) subsequently.

You say to me, “I have stated, on my web-site, that one case of sexual abuse would be one too many. I agree with you. Children must be protected at any cost.” But your apparent need to continue your investigation despite the “one case of sexual abuse” that has been candidly testified to by the Rahm family (and I might surmise at great emotional cost with each telling), is baffling. The Rahm Family’s repeated testimony does not seem to be enough information in your mind to convict Sai Baba of the heinous crime of child molestation.

You prefer legalistic solutions to something that is so overwhelmingly entrenched in layers of power (i.e., perceived spiritual power (SB is God, omniscient, omnipresent, etc.), and very definitely Sai Baba’s political and economic power (self-evident throughout India)), that you, like so many doubters who cannot believe that their avatar is capable of also being a child molester, refuse to give credence to salient evidence because it has not been proved in a court of law. Sai Baba is innocent until proven guilty.

How I wish there was a justice system somewhere in the world that we could fully trust to produce 100% of the time a completely competent verdict. I don’t know of one. So, in my mind, even if this did go to court (which those of us who believe Alaya Rahm would like nothing more to happen), knowing how the justice system often fails us leads me not to need this to go to court in order for me to believe Alaya’s story. Alaya has already very bravely made his testimony quite universally public. This was a family completely devoted to Sai Baba until this happened. The Rahm children were raised from birth to believe that Sai Baba was God in human form. Their home in Arkansas was run as much as possible in alignment with Sai Baba’s teachings. Given how coveted any kind of attention from Sai Baba is to devotees, and the fact that this family was receiving TONS of it relative to what most of us received, what purpose on earth would the Rahm family have for coming forward with this testimony other than for the sake of truth?

I commend your dogged research of expose’ websites. I, too, loathe racism and agree that there are people who will either consciously or unintentionally skew information to sensationalize. You’ve done a good job of uncovering mis-represented details and racist sources. Some of your analysis is impressive.

But Joe, you miss the point. The point is that the man who most of us believed was completely beyond reproach, whose teachings inspired, and continue to inspire hundreds of thousands of people world-wide, has molested children. He has NOT lived up to the teachings he espouses!

You ask why people submit information annonymously. Alaya was lucky to have such a loving and supportive family that trusted him enough to believe him. Many in the extended “Sai Baba Family“ refused to follow suit. My friend Ella Evers was an acquaintance of Neptune and his family, and has been in communication with his mother since he gave his testimony. This is a real young man who had a real experience of being molested. Each family responded to this experience differently. (If you take time to study academic research about sexual molestation, you will learn more about why victims and families respond in the variety of ways they do, as well as the long-term consequences of such vicitmization).

In India, where poverty is so pervasive, and a free education is so valuable, how many of Sai Baba’s students can truly safely come forward without jeopardizing the one avenue they might have out of poverty? And if they did come forward, who would believe them?! Al Rahm took the time and energy to write you all the details of the horror his family went though, and you continue to infer to me in your email below that you still believe Sai Baba is innocent because he has not been proven guilty. Michael Goldstein heard testimony directly from Al and Alaya Rahm soon after Alaya shared this horror story with his family. And though this man is a medical doctor whose ethical charge it is to protect children from this kind of abuse, he, too, could not ultimately believe the Rahm family’s story. Even though at the time he repeatedly said to Al, “this can’t be right, this is a good family, this is a good family”, i.e., would have no ulterior motive to testify to such an alarming experience.

I was like Dr. Goldstein for a long while prior to hearing about Alaya Rahm, but after hearing about other molestations. I refused to allow these stories to penetrate my blissful ‘certainty’ of Sai Baba’s divinity, only trusting my personal experience of him, which was repleat with all the variety of positives that drew and kept us devoted to him. We each make meaning of our cosmos in whatever way fits our experiential and intellectual understanding of it. Leaving Sai Baba and this Sai organization in the summer of 2000 was one of the most painful experiences of my life.

Why would I put myself through that much pain? Because I believed then, and firmly believe now that we are here on earth to do as little harm to one another as possible. This includes anyone in human form, even avatars! There is no excuse for sexual molestation. No one, not even Sai Baba, is excused from responsibility for hurting children this way. I felt then, and feel today that the SB organization has committed a grievious moral crime by not giving warning to other potential victims of Sai Baba’s perverted lust. Joe, these are not the first reports to come forward. These reports have been given for decades. I’ve talked both with Dr. Hislop about it in the early 1990s, and with Dr. Goldstein about it in the later 1990s. Both men were aware of it, but it simply took Sai Baba telling them that “in Swami there is no desire” to divert their further investigation. I believe that people don’t really WANT to know, because the pain of leaving Sai Baba is just too great for them. I have sympathy in that regard, because as I said earlier, I did experience that pain and it was no fun. But I can tell you today that I survived it, and feel that I’ve grown tremendously for having gone through it.

You must continue doing what you do. So be it. But do know that Al Rahm and Alaya Rahm have been telling the truth about Alaya’s molestation. If you want to approach each telling of the story like a lawyer in court, this is your privilege. It does not take one thing away from the fact that Alaya was molested when he was a child by the man he believed was God. You tell me if that isn’t the ultimate betrayal, and you tell me how confusing that must have been to this young man at a time when his trust in the world should have been MORE secured because of his family’s faith. Not completely shattered because of his family’s faith.

-Lisa

RESPONSE TO LISA TICE - EMAIL TWO

From: Lisa Tice (December 11th 2004)
Subject: Re: Vishvarupa Email
To: Joe

(Lisa Quotes Me) “I am in no way associated with the Sai Organization, nor do I belong to any Sai Group/Center. I alone decided to make these pages with no external prompting or guidance...Hello Lisa. Thank you for your email. I can see that I need to make another update on the article you cited. Before I do, I would like to point a few things out.”

Joe, just one more question - your website says that you have no affiliation with the SB Org. Does this mean that you are also not a follower of SB in anyway (whether or not you would consider yourself a “devotee”)? If not, may I ask what personal reason you have for pursuing your research? Thank you, Lisa

RESPONSE TO LISA TICE

From: Joe (December 11th 2004)
Subject: Re: Response
To: Lisa Tice

Lisa, there most certainly was a time, in my early twenties, that I considered myself a “devotee” of Sathya Sai Baba. However, my own personal, spiritual views clashed with Eastern Philosophy and Sathya Sai Baba’s philosophy as well. In particular, God concepts and the philosophy of karma. I remembered reading something, from SSB, that said that we must accept, or reject, SSB’s teachings based on the truth of our own experiences and conscience. Consequently, I no longer tried learning SSB’s teachings and expanded my search for truth to include other Spiritual Personalities such as Ramana Maharshi, Ananadamayi, Ammachi, Ramakrishna and Buddha. I am an agnositc who is open-minded, but not gullible. I answered your question about why I pursued my research on my website. I said, in my previous letter to you, “Consequently, my motives in researching the truth for myself have nothing to do with spirituality at all. As a matter of fact, the prime reason I made my web-site is because when I raised some vital concerns, to anti-SSB activists, I was immediately attacked and my concerns went completely ignored.” That is the reason.

Lisa, if you are claiming that Alaya’s public testimonies are “consistent” with what Al Rahm told you in 2000, then you are providing me with a first-hand witness account the proves that the Rahm Family lied. If I am to believe your words, then I guess that Alaya lied about when he got his first interview (Secret Swami says it occurred in 1997, while Al Rahm, Divine Downfall and Seduced say it was in 1995), which interview he got his first ring (Secret Swami and Seduced say 1997 while Al Rahm says 1995), who was present when he had his first “personal” experience with SSB (Secret Swami says family was with Alaya, Al Rahm, Divine Downfall and Seduced say his family was not with Alaya), what happened in Alaya’s first private interview (Secret Swami says SSB put oil on his genitals and kissed him deeply while Divine Downfall says SSB put on his genitals and “nothing sexual happened”), how he told his parents about the sexual abuse (Secret Swami says the Rahms approached Alaya, while in Seduced and Divine Downfall, Alaya approached his parents). Are you still standing your ground when you say that Alaya’s testimonies are “consistent” with what Al told you in 2000? If so, Al Rahm lied to me when he said that these contradictions were due to the editing process. So you really need to clarify this issue for me and I will post it on my website.

Lisa, your point about the Rahm Family’s testimonies, providing enough information to convict SSB is amusing, considering that the Rahm Family does not want to take this issue to court. They said, “If someone ever decides to take this to a court of law at that time it may be necessary for him or her to relive, retrieve, and paste exact, detailed, timeline, documents. I am not interested in doing that and the document I sent you stands complete and tells all that I feel needs to be told.” It is also important to point out that Alaya’s account, which I believe is genuine, does not account for hundreds and even thousands of allegations of sexual, abuse against SSB, mostly completely unsubstantiated. You seem to be implying that since sexual abuse happened once, then it must have happened hundreds, even thousands, of times. I am saying this is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts and the general public needs to be aware of this. All of the Anti-SSB sites spread this allegation of hundreds or thousands of boys being sexually abused. Where is the proof? Don’t you care about the proof? Apparently not! I am pointing this out for everyone to see and research for him or herself. This disinformation needs to made available to the general public, because whenever an Anti-SSB site engages in dishonesty, lies and vitriolic propaganda, the only ones who suffer are those who feel they have been legitimately abused. Alaya’s testimonies are being doubted by many. Not so much because of the contradictions I pointed out, but rather, due to the unreliable and dishonest means employed by the Anti-SSB sites that love to mix truth and untruths together. Despite ExBaba.com, SaiGuru.net and Robert Priddy being made fully aware of the reasons behind the contradictions in the Secret Swami, they continue to solicit this documentary as the truth. If they believe it is the truth, when clearly it is not, then they are doing a great disservice to the Rahm Family. My site is the only site that provides this information that reconciles the contradictions and makes Alaya’s testimonies more reliable. Why do I have to do this? Why haven’t these Anti-SSB activists done the proper research themselves? I’ll tell you why, because the Secret Swami Documentary has gone global and the Anti-SSB activists cling to this documentary as a redeeming “holy grail”. I have shown that this documentary has been poorly edited and researched. No one wants to admit this!

Lisa, once again, even despite my clarification to you, you still say, “you, like so many doubters who cannot believe that their avatar is capable of also being a child molester”. If you refuse to believe, my prior answers to you, that is your choice. You will be held accountable for your blatant denial of my clarifications. SSB is not “my avatar”. And until SSB goes to court and is tried and convicted, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I am assuming that you would find no problem with me making a false allegation against you, and you suffering the stigma of guilt before being proven otherwise? You seem to be implying that when it comes to sexual abuse, SSB should not be held to a different standard, than the one used against other sexual abusers. However, when it comes to the legal aspects, you hold SSB to a different standard when it comes to guilt or innocence! Lisa, you can’t have it both ways. Either you are consistent in your approach, or not. I believe that SSB should be held to the same legal standards that others are held to. Everyone keeps saying that SSB could never be found guilty in India because of his political power, etc. However, not even one alleged sexual abuse victim has even tried to file a case, in India, against him! Not even one! Considering that there are allegedly “hundreds” and even “thousands” of sexual abuse victims, it is indeed mysterious that ALL of them have not even attempted to file an official case in India! I wonder why?

Lisa, many people have made many bold assertions publicly, and have lied as well. Many people have claimed rape, murder, hate crimes, theft, fraud and other things publicly and have lied about it. Until it is proven in a court of law, accusations and allegations are nothing more than accusations and allegations. Even if something “appears” to be genuine, until a court makes an indictment, there can never be legality. Odd you should refute my position on demanding legality, since this is the very same thing that is being pursued by Anti-SSB activists! Again, you want SSB to be treated as other sexual abusers, but you do not want SSB to be treated with the same legal entitlements that others receive. This is hypocritical.

Lisa, you comments about “Neptune” are not convincing. The problem with “Neptune’s” story is that the mother dispersed letters to SSB centers, yet did not do the right thing by dispersing even one letter to the proper authorities. Not even once did she take this issue to the FBI, police or a court of law. Despite this fact, she was more than willing to send letters to SSB centers and make these allegations under the guise of anonymity. The reason given why the boy’s name was withheld was attributed to his age; however, the boy is now 20 years old and still there is a deafening silence from him. You must remember that ExBaba.com lauds Dr. Kovoor when he states that anonymous allegations, in favor of SSB. are “legitimately withholding information, being insincere and dishonest, conspiring, propagandizing and having some sort of vested interest”. However, when it comes to claims against SSB, made by anonymous sources, the very words, that ExBaba.com praise, are tossed out the window! This is hypocritical. I fully understand how a person would not want to divulge their real name about a traumatic and personal event in their life. However, choosing to do so, under a pseudonym, opens a Pandora’s box for fraudulent testimonies from those who are purposely trying to slander SSB. One cannot have it both ways.

Lisa, SSB is not completely beyond reproach. If people come together, in truth and honesty, and present facts without resorting to lies, contradictions and hate, they have already won. Unfortunately, as I have stated before, these Anti-SSB sites are doing more harm, than good, for those who believe they have been legitimately abused. This is the sad truth of the matter.

Lisa, supposedly, these allegations of sexual abuse have been made for a very long time. As you said, these allegations have been coming out for “decades”. Many of SSB’s students have graduated and moved on with their lives. In all this time, they have not come forward to say that they were sexually abused by SSB. So your argument may apply to those who are currently getting their education, but does not apply to the many thousands who have since graduated and moved on with their lives, away from the Ashram. Dr. Goldstein said why he couldn’t believe the Rahm’s. I do not agree with the reasons that he gave, however, everyone makes their own decisions according to their own life experiences. Dr. Goldstein has seen SSB mix with the students, for many years, and never saw anything wrong. As a matter of fact, I can testify to the same thing. The students always seem to be imploring SSB with prayers and showing much devotion in public. Of course, this does not mean that nothing is wrong. But it does mean that this is a valid reason why Dr. Goldstein believes the way he does.

Lisa, you last point about my telling the story “like a lawyer in a court” is not fair. If these allegations were made against you, I am sure you would want someone telling the story as I am. It must have been an ultimate betrayal of faith when you heard the story from the Rahm’s. I must say that I was overwhelmed by many of these stories and accepted many of them as true. For all these years, I have been silent. Once I was treated with such contempt, and hostility, by Anti-SSB activists, I began to question the integrity of those who are dispersing these stories against SSB. My site is a result of that effort. Sadly, I have shown how these anti-SSB activists will resort to lies to protect their agenda of deceit. Everyone will see this and this will make the testimonies even less credible. These Anti-SSB activists even resorted to directing all the links, I provided on my site, to a hack page that forced the user to shut down their computer! This, after trying to be fair and giving a link to their site to explain their side of the story! This is despicable and shows who has the most the lose. And I can tell you now, it isn’t me!

Lisa, I hoped I answered all of your questions.

Take care.

Sincerely,

Joe

RESPONSE FROM LISA TICE

From: Lisa Tice (December 11th 2004)
Subject: Re: Response
To: Joe

[Lisa Quotes Me] “Consequently, my motives in researching the truth for myself have nothing to do with spirituality at all. As a matter of fact, the prime reason I made my web-site is because when I raised some vital concerns, to anti-SSB activists, I was immediately attacked and my concerns went completely ignored.” That is the reason... Lisa, if you are claiming that Alaya’s public testimonies are “consistent” with what Al Rahm told you in 2000, then you are providing me with a first-hand witness account the proves that the Rahm Family lied.”

Joe, I did not take dictation when Al talked to me. I do not remember the sequence of events of ‘what happened’ in ‘what interview’ in ‘what year’ and who Alaya was in India with, nor am I sure that Al confided those details to me when he talked to me - this was four years ago! I was a mother listening to a father tell me that his son had been molested by a man the entire family believed to be God. I was not taking a court report. And YES, I DO hold Sai Baba to a different standard because he holds HIMSELF to a different standard. And very much like the Catholic priests who abused their power over children to sexually molest them for years while under the shield of the church, children will continue to be brought to Sai Baba without having an inkling that he has been accused of pedophilia because the SB Org continues to shield SB. Parents like Al Rahm in his wife will be sitting in the interview room thinking what a blessing it is for their son to be behind the curtain with Sai Baba all by himself, and all the while not knowing that something sinister might be happening. So, this is why Al’s and Alaya’s testimonies are so important. I must commend you for publishing all of Al’s letter to you. Your eagerness, however, to say this family is lying because superflous details may not match with each telling is not only very unimpressive, it is downright mean spirited.

[Lisa Quotes Me] “I must say that I was overwhelmed by many of these stories and accepted many of them as true. For all these years, I have been silent...Once I was treated with such contempt, and hostility, by Anti-SSB activists, I began to question the integrity of those who are dispersing these stories against SSB. My site is a result of that effort.”

I believe the underlined above is the real reason you pursue the “facts” with such vengeance Joe - this is a personal issue for you, and as such lacks as much “objectivity” as you accuse your anti-saibaba activists as not having. So long as you approach this research as a personal vendetta, you will not be open to the truth. You say that even one child being molested is too many, but do your really believe this??? Apparently not, because even though one child has bravely come forward, you eagerly look for ways to call him a liar.

I will stay prayerful that God guides your work for the ultimate good. And prayerful that you have the personal integrity to search your own motives honestly so that you maintain as much objectivity as you possibly can. Right now, all I hear is someone eager to prove the anti-saibaba activists wrong (and therefore any perceived inconsistencies in testimony means the Rahms are liars), which again misses the point! The point is protecting children.

I am done corresponding with you Joe. In my opinion, you are anything but objective. But you would certainly make a good lawyer.

Sincerely, Lisa

RESPONSE TO LISA TICE

From: Joe (December 11th 2004)
Subject: Re: Response
To: Lisa Tice

Lisa, nobody put the words in your mouth. You said the story that Al Rahm told you, in 2000, was “consistent” with the stories Alaya told in his interviews. Despite making this statement of fact, now you are saying you do not remember “details” or the “sequence” of events! If this is true, how do you know that the stories were “consistent“ when you just admitted you do not remember the details or the sequence of events?

And thank you for admitting that you are holding SSB to a different standard. Once again, another anti-SSB activist justifying their dishonest beliefs by resorting to the very same specious and deceitful actions they accuse SSB and the Sai Organization of! One would think that a sincere and honest seeker of truth would stick to that path and consistently follow it. Or so one would think...

And it saddens me that you, obviously, have not read anything I have said about Alaya. I believe his account. I am not calling him a liar. The Secret Swami Documentary made him into a liar. When you compare his testimony on Secret Swami with his testimonies on Divine Downfall and Seduced, serious contradictions arise. These contradictions need to be addressed. If I don’t address these contradictions, someone else will. I am not going to indulge in a one sided vendetta like your Anti-SSB cronies. The truth hurts. And your bellyaching proves it! You seem to imply that “inconsistencies” are not important. Another fascinating stance. And if you think that Anti-SSB activists are not motivated by vengence, to the point of lying and stealing others works, then go ahead and continue your life with your head in the clouds. As a matter of fact, just a few minutes ago, I found yet another instance of ExBaba.com stealing my website title, keywords, metatags, javascripts and description in a desperate attempt to outrank my site! These are the people who you believe and advocate for! Liars and stealers! Funny you want to protect children, but through sites that lie and steal. Sad.

Lisa, one can honestly say that you are not objective either. In this search for truth, “objectivity” is shaded by pesonal beliefs. Anti-SSB sites have presented their concept of “objectivity” and I am presenting mine. You see no problem with them presenting theirs, but you see every problem with me presenting mine.

Feel free to call me whatever you like and label as you choose. You have provided no information to refute anything I have said. As a matter of fact, the only information you did provide, almost put the Rahm Family’s response into jeopardy!

I will provide this correspondence on my site. I will keep your email private so that you will not receive spam. If any other Anti-SSB site reference these emails using, my full email address, I will have to reciprocate and provide your full email address as well.

Take care, Lisa.

Sincerely,

Joe

LISA TICE - IN CONCLUSION

In Conclusion, Lisa Tice emailed me and criticized my comments about Dave Brandt after “merely scanning” my website. Lisa Tice repeatedly criticized my “legalistic” approach but made her criticisms in face of the fact that ex-devotees want to take legal action against Sai Baba.

Lisa Tice’s emails are inconsistent and contradictory. She almost provided me with a first-hand account that would have refuted the Rahm Family’s letter. Lisa Tice took the moral position of “defending our children” to such an extreme that she dismissed the stealing and lies engaged in by Anti-Sai Activists. Lisa Tice does not care about the inconsistencies in Alaya Rahm’s testimonies and is willing to justify (like an extremist) “hundreds” and even “thousands” of sexual abuse rumors and gossip simply because she believes Alaya Rahm was sexually abused.

Lisa Tice openly stated that Sai Baba should be held to a “different standard” than the rest of us. Despite this statement, Lisa Tice wants Sai Baba to be held accountable for his actions just like other felons but does not want him to have the same legal entitlement of being presumed innocent until proven guilty! Double standards and double talk from Lisa Tice. Sadly enough, my original comment, saying: “...suggesting that anger, rather than genuine grievances, are driving this Anti-Sai Campaign”, seems to be true.

• Alaya Rahm Self-Dismissed His Own Lawsuit Against The SSB Society
• A Scathing Response To Critics About Alaya Rahm’s Failed Lawsuit
• The Rahm Family - Allegations Examined

Quote from Lisa Tice’s website (ticecounseling.com/about_lisa_tice):

“Lisa Tice is a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker with 11 years of experience working in the field of psychiatric social work and disability advocacy. She has been Manager of Disability Support Services at the University of Washington, Tacoma since 1996, where she has also intermittently served as acting Lead Counselor for students on campus. Lisa also worked as an on-call social worker in the Emergency Department of Harrison Memorial Hospital from 1996-1998, where she served as the mental health professional on the emergency clinical team.”